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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I use Shawn Dustin Retriever Fever and have also watched Top Dog video. My 13 mo CF doesn't consistently spin the correct way to the blind. If I send her on a left directional back and I over I exaggerate with my left hand signal she will turn that way, but even sometimes she spins wrong. To add to this she isn't crisp on her spin. She will loop some and get off-line which requires me to sit her and cast over sometimes. In Top Dog he showed to hit with collar and sit dog then do it again. I really dont agree with this since my dog doesnt fully understand what I exactly want. She knows I want her to go back in each direction, but her mechanics are a little faulty. Is there a drill to help her with learning to spin correctly? This will help her on her backs also, where she tends to loop also.

Jamie
 

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All dogs are pretty much one sided. Go to 8 hand cast, that should get her handier on her spins.

Angie
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry Angie still new here hehe. Can you elaborate on 8 handed cast, I haven't done that drill.

Thank you,
Jamie
 

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I don't know if Frank Plewa posts anymore, but he had a drill for this at his Amish seminar. I wish I could show you because I am TERRIBLE at trying to explain training stuff. :roll:

He sets bumpers in the 4 corners of a rectangular flat, featureless field. The dog watches you set them out. Frank, before casting would shift or lean before casting & the if the dog anticipated w/ movement or if the dog auto cast-Frank would stop him-toot him in a few feet & repeat the process. The bottom line is that the expectation placed on the dog was to sit rock solid & square & not move until the cast (he would change position to incorporate angle backs as well as straight backs) was clear with a fully extended arm.

Someone else who was there can probably explain it better, but I used this drill & really found it effective.

M
 

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get "Building A Retriever, drills & more" by Carol F. Cassity
go to page 66-67 for back vs. angle back drill and page 49, 50-51 for Wagon Wheel. It is packed with drills
 

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ps- when you get the book do not be fooled by the photo cover of a Golden retriever in the water and without a bandana. It is not a work of fiction. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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I think that i would go back to pile work in the yard. force to the pile is the first step the dog learns in blind running, if he will not consistantly turn the right direction and go back, then you have to go back and reteach this in the yard. he should know this before he knows overs.
 

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So Jamie, is that as clear as mud now! :shock:
I am not familiar with the Dustin stuff but if your dog doesn't understand a left back vs a right back and you want to go way back to a basic drill to make sure he understands. Sit him facing you, toss a bumper over his left shoulder(your right), make him stay there, straighten his sit to face you if he turns at all to follow it, then give him a right back. I would recommend you have him on a rope so that if he turns wrong, you can stop him, sit and start over. Do the same thing to the other side. Really pretty easy drill and if you haven't done this yet, I would start there. Then move into the over piles with the same drill. As this drill progresses you should have a left and right back pile, the left and right over piles and eventually the angle backs as well.

If you have already done all this then you should be confident that the dog knows what you are asking and IMO a collar correction is ok at that point in the field.
 

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Achiro

I'm gonna give Achiro a Big Amen on this one.



Richard
 

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Re: Achiro

Richard Finch said:
I'm gonna give Achiro a Big Amen on this one.



Richard
Me too. :oops: But I bake great chocolate chip cookies.

Why I Don't Post Training Advice Regards-

M
 

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Drive a stake in the ground. Sit the dog so that his head and shoulders are next to the stake and facing you. Give the back cast to the opposite side of the stake. Dog can only spin in the direction you want him to. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
 

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My dog was doing this very thing(she's right handed I think) I took two buckets and put a pile of bumpers in front of each one at about 45 yrds. I put them at a 45 deg angle ofer both shoulders with her sitting 20 yrd and looking at me. Gave left until it was flawless and then right. I did sit her and give a little nick and a no if she started the wrong way. Worked like a charm for me.
 

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I've done it various ways with a few dogs and I personally have found the way Russ Achiro wrote it to be slick and portable.

It's not a big deal, give the cast and if pup spins the wrong way, tell pup "no" hang on to rope, get pup sitting again, maybe toss another bumper, maybe not, give the right cast....pup will pick it up fast!

Chris - a big fan of rope....although not as big as Ken Bora
 

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The rope does work well, but if you sometimes get tangled liked some of us do :oops: another method that works is to put dog up against a large solid object - such as a round hay bale, large tree, a fence. The dog can only turn one way. Work dog on one side of object and then move to the other. Once they seem to have really gotten it - move them (slowly) a little farther away from the object so they have a "choice". If they make the wrong turn, stop them and move them closer. This method has worked very effectively for me.

Another way to skin a cat regards,

Andy
 

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JamieV said:
Is there a drill to help her with learning to spin correctly? This will help her on her backs also, where she tends to loop also.

Jamie
3rd alternative: no ropes, no pushing buttons (just creating a habit)

Parking lot/driveway drill: Place your dog between 2 side-side parked cars about 6 feet apart. 2 piles of bumpers in front of each car. sit dog at rear of car 1(close to the car) and cast to pile @car 2. then reverse to cast to the opposite pile.

The dog will turn appropriately rather banging his head into the adjacent car. As the dog learns you can move the dog more to the middle for casting and ultimately have them make that near head banging turn.
A true old Amish (non-violent) drill.

Tim
 

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Tim Carrion said:
A true old Amish (non-violent) drill.

Tim
Tim, I don't know what the hell kind of training you are doing or seeing but I would like to think that the majority of us use "non-violent" methods to train our dogs! :evil:
 

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FTP with a marker such as a white bucket. On the angled backs, two white buckets in line about 30-40 yard away from each other. If your dog takes the angled back and turns to the wrong bucket, stop her with a whistle tell her NO and call her back to you. Eventually she will understand what you are asking of her.

Good luck
Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you guys very much. Achiro, this is one drill that I didn't do. (Chaulk that up to rookie trainer) She has FTP down good and she can cast over very well. Since I didnt do this drill I can see exactly why she doesn't directional back on a good line. I will work her on this and post my progress. Thanks again for all of the input!

Jamie
 

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8 hand cast is done on your wagon wheel pattern. You teach one half of the pattern first. Dog sits on mat and you have 2 over piles and one back pile. Once dog does these correctly pick them up and teach 2 long angle backs. Place them out longer than where the back and side piles were. Once those are learned add the back piles to the over piles. Once those are going smoothly and use a rope by the way, Teach the 2 angle in piles and the straight come in pile. You stand outside the circle when this part of the drill.

Wagon Wheel and 8 Hand cast is in every yard drill book that I know of. I second Carol Cassity's book, and Training your Retriever to Handle by D.L. Walters is a oldie but a goodie....

Angie
 
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