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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just had a brief conversation with a successful derby pro and I asked for advice about improving marking skills for puppies. She mentioned using orange bumpers. Can someone please explain the reason and use for orange bumpers with puppy marks?
 

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I use orange bumpers with young dogs as a marking drill. Consider introducing after your dog is doing well with white and black. Using orange on occassion test to see if the dog is really using his eyes. Certain young dog marking drills work on creating better markers.

Having white or black bumper is a crutch and a part of the training process. Orange has it's uses as well in marking drills and early blinds.

So I've read. :wink:
 

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Dogs are for the most part, colorblind. In example, most dogs cannot see orange against green backgrounds, which encourages hunting.

I assume what the pro has in mind is to encourage the dog to mark the fall by not allowing the dog to mark it on the ground.
 

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The problem I have with using any 'nonvisible' color is that it encourages a youngster to use its nose. When we teach a young dog to mark it should be with its eyes. Learning to use the nose to find the mailbox after its eyes get it to the postoffice is the name of the game.
 

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Bob Gutermuth said:
The problem I have with using any 'nonvisible' color is that it encourages a youngster to use its nose. When we teach a young dog to mark it should be with its eyes. Learning to use the nose to find the mailbox after its eyes get it to the postoffice is the name of the game.
Dogs can see orange bumpers in the sky sometimes better than all white. Orange does contrast to the ground less than white or black. I wouldn't use ornage all the time but, for true marking drills, orange will give you answers.

I'll bet that the Pros that the original poster was refering to are Mary and Bill Hillman. I'll also bet their four High Point Derby dogs were marked on a percentage of orange bumpers during drills.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mr. Booty is right I spoke to Mary. I've never heard of using orange for marking only for blinds and had the same idea as Bob about using eyes not nose. My pup is five months old. She is retrieving pretty good. I would say she's becoming confident. What's the best way to begin using the orange bumpers? Is there literature about when and where in the training the orange bumpers are used? Mary said thay are working on a video about working with pups between two and six months but it won't be done at least till summer. Thanks for the help so far :D . Please keep it coming.
 

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I have read that dogs are not color blind. They see the colors differently. Orange is seen but as a different color from what we recognize it to be.
 

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I really question this... ..and have to ask:Is the idea that the dog will see the gunner, hear the shot & just proceed OR focus more intently to see the throw/fall.

M
 

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Bill has won the Derby Championship a couple of times. Has this success translated into top notch all age competetors? I can only think of 3 Derby Champs that have also won an NFC; Timey and Willey(Farmer trained) & Lottie(Lardy).
 

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If your pup is 5 months old he should only be seeing white bumbers. It help his watch the mark in the air and it teaches him to use his eyes when he gets to the AOF and not to stick his nose down (start hunting).
I have trained with Danny Farmer off and on over the years and I AIN"T NEVER thrown a orange bumper for a mark for any dog on his truck. Of course Farmer ain't no Hillmann either!

Use half black & half white regards,
Arturo
 

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derbies

When you spend the money and time to run 40+ trials during a derby career you should be a derby champ! Not very many people take the time required to make a derby champ. I'd rather see a dog that has a higher points per start, but thats MHO.
CB
 

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Dogs that mark well can get sloppy or lazy. A good marking dog is confident and having to hunt is the penalty for not focusing.

Last summer my MH Taffey was getting sloppy on her marking. The body language was "Hey, I'll just run toward the gunner a bit and hunt it up." So I set up a y-drill using orange bumpers on a very poor scenting day. I told my training partner to NOT help her at all...and that it might get ugly (long hunt). It should be noted that she was being "roaded" and in great physical shape.

She blew past the second mark after getting sucked over toward the gunner. The orange bumpers were thrown a lot farther out than in most marking situations. She proceeded to set up a huge hunt. It was warm and the hunt lasted a long time.....no handling and with no help from the gunner. In fact, I had to remind the gunner to NOT help. Remember this is a talented dog that was just getting sloppy.

Finally, she stumbled onto the orange bumper. As the next mark was thrown, I could see she was much more intent, was very focused on the fall and did not glance back at the gunner. It was as if she was saying, "No way am I going through that again." This time she took a perfect line to the mark and stepped on it. The penalty for not focusing was clearly understood.

I would think there is stage in training where a dog can deal with this approach.
 

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Booty said:
I'll bet that the Pros that the original poster was refering to are Mary and Bill Hillman. I'll also bet their four High Point Derby dogs were marked on a percentage of orange bumpers during drills.
High percentage, Mary visits the site so hopefully she'll chime in. Mary likes light (mowed) cover and orange bumpers for puppy marks, regardless of distance. We all start our puppies on short and visable marks. I mean at 10 yards you could throw an old shoe and the puppy would confidently bring it back. The puppy quickly learns the concept; run out and pick it up and bring it back. Orange bumpers introduces the pup to the concept of find/hunt for the mark using his eyes. The pup begins to understand that to succeed takes a little work. As the pup moves into more dificult marks in heavier cover with white bumpers they've already learned how to hunt and don't need the help of the bird boy nor do they run around aimlessly until they happen to see it. The pups trained on white bumpers learn how to establish a hunt pattern in heavy cover. The pups trained on orange bumpers prior to heavy cover already have a hunt pattern imprinted. Consequently success earlier in the game, hopefully.
Lyle
 

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Re: derbies

Chad Baker said:
I'd rather see a dog that has a higher points per start, but thats MHO.
CB
I agree. Too much emphasis for some with Derby. Batting averages tell a more accurate story
 
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