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So will this solve "the" National Problem?

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Qualifers in addition to 6 master passes a year to go to the "Offical" Master National?

1938 Views 29 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  drunkenpoacher, 
Hunt'EmUp
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drunkenpoacher said:
That is currently the biggest problem in both hunt tests and Field trials IMO. Not enough dedicated amateurs participating, handling and training their own dogs.
People are always thrilled when they handle a dog to their first ribbon in Junior or started. Often they are inspired to attain a higher level.
What satisfaction or inspiration could anyone get from paying a pro to handle a dog to a junior pass?
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Agreed.
I would also add what satisfaction or inspiration could anyone get from paying a pro to handle a dog to a senior pass or a masterpass or a Derby, Qual or Open Jam, 4th Place, third place, second place, or blue ribbon?
I learned how to write a check in the sixth grade, and the skill set to complete that task has not changed since.
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J
I like the idea of keeping the junior test but requiring the dog to be steady to shot and run without collar. I can go either way related to having a junior dog honor. I can go along with a six test pass requirement in order to run the qualifier. I think passing the qualifier should count as one pass toward the next year's six test requirement and I would like to see the dogs that pass the MN get credit for two passes toward the next year's six test requirement due to the increase in difficulty of the MN and a minimum of 4 series at MN. I disagree that if a dog fails the one qualifier it runs, it is not longer eligible for that year's MN. During the next years transition period I would disqualify a dog after failing two qualifiers. there are too many questions as to how the proposed standards will work in reality at this point. I would like some flexibility during the transition period.
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P
About ten years ago, I floated the idea of qualifier tests by region to determine eligibility for the Master National. I don't think I am a genius by any means, but a lifetime of studying Science, using critical thinking and working in applied engineering have developed my thought process. I am not the only person in the retrieving game with these qualities. Like minded individuals came to the same conclusion. BUT... the can has been kicked down the road for so long that more than that is necessary, if the goal is to improve the quality of the event and make Qualifying at the Master National event truly special.
1000+- entries and 400+- qualifiers is not sustainable and everyone knows it.
I hope it doesn't take another ten years for the qualifier tests and Master National to adopt a new, more demanding standard so that it truly is special and showcases the dogs which are the best of the HT venue.
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C
If something like this is adopted, do you look for the weekend master test's standards to go up?
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Hunt'EmUp
Improving the Standard of the Master National doesn't really require all this rigamroll. A weekend Masters test requires a pass percentage of 70%. So all the national would have to do is move that up to 85-90% now it's harder. Still the AKC grading scale is to open in terms of intrepreation and judges do not have a standard grading scale in reguard to what is a 1-10. Some start at 7 some start at 10, others use their own (who the heck knows system of calculations) I would hazard to say many-most judges don't even write down all the numbers; in all the categories. HRC (gasp) is a lot easier system, pass-marginal-fail, with the requirement of what is required to pass in black and white. Their Grand Scale 0 1 2, with the requirement of a certain # of points needed to move on to the next series and eventually pass. It is very easy; they publish the numbers btw series and you don't even need to take your shoes off to do the math, to know if your going on or not ;) . Heaven forbid the AKC adopt something like that. But reading this the pass rate at the National is not an issue (heck it could be 100% and I doubt AKC would care). The problem is there are too many dogs; but they created this problem themselves when they made a national title, that's when the national numbers started skyrocketing. I see questions on why people would pay a Pro to run this or that or whichever JH-FC-anything? The answer is people want titles, easiest way to get them is to write a check. I find it funny when they say the National is too popular; To the AKC it's only too popular becuase there isn't easily accessed areas or clubs able to run it. If there was an area to run 5000 dogs you can bet they would endorse it. Probably the easiest way to cut numbers? 1) Limit the Number of dogs a single handler can run in the National. 2)Make it a Owner-Handler National then see how many people show up. Only would then Pros start co-owning 12-20 dogs?
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Coldtrack said:
If something like this is adopted, do you look for the weekend master test's standards to go up?
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No, there would be no need to do that.
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T. Mac
Perhaps the simplist solution is to take what already exists for the weekend tests? Set a max limit for the number of entries. Preferably with EE modifying their entry form to only allow one entry (dog) per submit button push (no batch submits of multiple dogs).
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RJG
Hunt'EmUp said:
Improving the Standard of the Master National doesn't really require all this rigamroll. A weekend Masters test requires a pass percentage of 70%. So all the national would have to do is move that up to 85-90% now it's harder. Still the AKC grading scale is to open in terms of intrepreation and judges do not have a standard grading scale in reguard to what is a 1-10. Some start at 7 some start at 10, others use their own (who the heck knows system of calculations) I would hazard to say many-most judges don't even write down all the numbers; in all the categories. HRC (gasp) is a lot easier system, pass-marginal-fail, with the requirement of what is required to pass in black and white. Their Grand Scale 0 1 2, with the requirement of a certain # of points needed to move on to the next series and eventually pass. It is very easy; they publish the numbers btw series and you don't even need to take your shoes off to do the math, to know if your going on or not ;) . Heaven forbid the AKC adopt something like that. But reading this the pass rate at the National is not an issue (heck it could be 100% and I doubt AKC would care). The problem is there are too many dogs; but they created this problem themselves when they made a national title, that's when the national numbers started skyrocketing. I see questions on why people would pay a Pro to run this or that or whichever JH-FC-anything? The answer is people want titles, easiest way to get them is to write a check. I find it funny when they say the National is too popular; To the AKC it's only too popular becuase there isn't easily accessed areas or clubs able to run it. If there was an area to run 5000 dogs you can bet they would endorse it. Probably the easiest way to cut numbers? 1) Limit the Number of dogs a single handler can run in the National. 2)Make it a Owner-Handler National then see how many people show up. Only would then Pros start co-owning 12-20 dogs?
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That's how/why the Master Amateur Retriever Club started. A national event for only amateur handlers - much smaller (so far anyway), challenging tests and a lot of fun.
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RJG said:
That's how/why the Master Amateur Retriever Club started. A national event for only amateur handlers - much smaller (so far anyway), challenging tests and a lot of fun.
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Not for long.
The numbers of dogs entered in this event have gone up markedly since its inception.
It will face the same problem in the near future.
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drunkenpoacher
paul young said:
The numbers of dogs entered in this event have gone up markedly since its inception.
It will face the same problem in the near future.
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Yes, and with what percentage of the dogs having been trained by amateurs?
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