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It conforms to the tugs which he does on the lead before moving to collar. The tugs are given after the dog is sitting, and the repeated nicks follow in the same manner when the collar comes into play. Everything is a reinforcement when the dog is doing something correctly, rather than a correction.
 

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If you want to follow Bill's principles, then yes, it matters. If you talk to Bill, he will tell you that one of the key differentiators between successful trainers and those not so, using an e-collar or anything really, has to do with timing. Well, reading the dog as well as timing.

If you are interested in Bill's philosophies you will find lots of consistently applied reinforcement for a known command with very low stimulation as the reinforcer.

I did read your reply from July 7, to someone about a dog that drops a retrieved object. Based upon that, I am assuming that your current ideas on training methodology differ from what Bill is advocating. I'm not saying that there is a "right" or a "wrong". I am just saying that you may be accustomed to dog training philosophies that vary from what Bill is doing.

Chris
 

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Right, I understand that the tugs/nicks come after the dog is already sitting, which I have been doing. My question is, when Bill is saying SIT after the dog is sitting, is he applying the tugs and nicks simultaneously with saying SIT or is he saying SIT, and then right after the command applying the tug/nick? Indeed, I thought the timing mattered, which is why I am asking.

Chris, thank you for your response, but I am a bit confused. With regard to my July 7 response concerning the HOLD and HEEL/gentle knocking out drill, it worked EXQUISITELY for me. After about a week of doing this (and I still do it every once in a while), it was as if everything learned in FF with regard to HOLD shaped right up beautifully. I guess my question is why that method is in conflict with Bill's ideology (or, what is Bill's ideology?)? Seems to me that this video and the HOLD and HEEL drill are addressing two entirely different issues, requiring different approaches. My comments from the July 7 post were addressing a dog that was supposedly already fully force fetched not holding. This video addresses the problem of an older dog not having the desired line manners. I'd love to learn more about Bill's (and anyone else's) philosophies.

I guess it would help for y'all to know my goals with this video. I, regrettably, did not initially train my 2 y/o YLM to STAY on the command SIT. He was taught SIT and then told STAY if I did not want him to break, which he does well. Using this video of Bill's, my goal is to eradicate the STAY command and teach that SIT means STAY (until given another command) by using my hand command for STAY (traffic cop palm) and saying SIT with the reinforcement nick. It is coming along nicely.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I guess it would help for y'all to know my goals with this video. I, regrettably, did not initially train my 2 y/o YLM to STAY on the command SIT. He was taught SIT and then told STAY if I did not want him to break, which he does well. Using this video of Bill's, my goal is to eradicate the STAY command and teach that SIT means STAY (until given another command) by using my hand command for STAY (traffic cop palm) and saying SIT with the reinforcement nick. It is coming along nicely.
UPDATE: Yesterday, we worked on (a) marks on live flyers with SIT command only (no STAY) alternating with (b) honoring on the SIT command only (no STAY) while another dog/handler ran live flyers. No break. Creeped a few feet on the first honor attempt, but was locked up steady on the 2nd attempt. A little wimpering on the honors, which I would like to quell ASAP. Otherwise, coming along nicely.
 

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Pdon,

I wish you the best of luck with your training. It reads as if you are satisfied with your results and having fun.

That's what it's all about!

Sincerely, Chris
 
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