[Tommy Wallace]

Just curious should the test be done if the dog is still in the bleeding stage or wait till the 2nd week?

 

[mwk56]

"bleeding stage" lasts three weeks or so.

If you don't have a breeding history on the female, best to do a basline progesterone around day 7 or so to know where she is in her cycle. Or, you can use vaginal smears to better target when to test progesterone.

Meredith

 

[Guest]

If you don't have a breeding history on the female, best to do a basline progesterone around day 7 or so to know where she is in her cycle.

This is exactly what we do but do so even if there is a breeding history on the female. Every cycle can be different. The value of the progesterone test will depend on when we do the next one.

 

[obx4me]

The idea is to get a first baseline result BEFORE the progesterone surge (a result less than 2 or 3, or even something below 1). I'd suggest doing first progest test at somewhere around 6-8 days into heat cycle. This is usually going to be when there are still in the lots of red blood stage. I would NOT wait until you see less bloood.

 

[ErinsEdge]

There are females that once they start to rise go very fast and there are others that take forever. I have a few that go so early and so quickly that if I didn't have studs here I wouldn't catch them. Definately go early when they are bleeding, day 7 or 8.

 

[Tommy Wallace]

The first sign I seen of her bleeding was Sunday 5-13. The vet had me take her in today 5-17 while she is still bleeding.

I thought that she had 7 days that she would bleed - 7 days she would accept the male - an 7 days going out. Am I right about this?

The breeding will be surgical because Rough is in Minnesota, to long of a drive.

Thanks for your help. I just did not know if it was doing any good to do it that early.

 

[ErinsEdge]

I thought that she had 7 days that she would bleed - 7 days she would accept the male - an 7 days going out. Am I right about this?

They are all different and that is a very broad generalization. You must be accurate for a surgical, especially if it is a frozen. There is a more narrow window for success so you usually have to do more than a few progesterones.

 

[Tommy Wallace]

I have heard a few of you speak of doing this test your self. Could someone give me some advice on this or refer me some where.

 

[Mike W.]

My female started discharging on a Friday night/Sat. morning. I went & picked her up on Sunday, and had progesterone drawn at 8am on that Monday morning. She was at an 8.8, and was bred Wed & Thursday of that week. Breeding took.

If we had waited til day 7 after seeing the discharge, the party would have been over.

That being said, who knows if she was in for a few days before noticeable discharge.

 

[ErinsEdge]

I have heard a few of you speak of doing this test your self. Could someone give me some advice on this or refer me some where.

Think about how much you will have invested with the collection and surgical. Why do a qualitative test and gives you a ball park answer instead of a quantitative test with numbers. I would never do that on a surgical because they are looking for higher numbers that won't be measured by a kit. We may take a stab at using it for a natural breeding but most of us don't like to estimate and then come up with no pups and more than a thousand dollars of expenses.

 

[ErinsEdge]

My female started discharging on a Friday night/Sat. morning. I went & picked her up on Sunday, and had progesterone drawn at 8am on that Monday morning. She was at an 8.8, and was bred Wed & Thursday of that week. Breeding took.

If we had waited til day 7 after seeing the discharge, the party would have been over.

That being said, who knows if she was in for a few days before noticeable discharge.

I have had more than a few like that. You can't take anything for granted. I had one where the males were barking, drew the female and she was at 13.4.She had just a tinge of blood a few days before and was barely swollen. She was bred the next day and had a full litter. This time she was very swollen but still not too much discharge. I went by the boys and bred her first on day 7 from when I saw faint blood.

 

[Tommy Wallace]

Think about how much you will have invested with the collection and surgical. Why do a qualitative test and gives you a ball park answer instead of a quantitative test with numbers. I would never do that on a surgical because they are looking for higher numbers that won't be measured by a kit. We may take a stab at using it for a natural breeding but most of us don't like to estimate and then come up with no pups and more than a thousand dollars of expenses.

Amen,

I just did not know. Thanks for the advice. Never done a breeding like this. Never tried it like this, it has all been natural till now.

 

[trinitylabs]

I do a baseline progesterone within a couple of days of the first sign of heat. I have had females that are ready to breed by day 7 and dogs that were not ready to breed until day 27. I go to my local vet and have them do the blood draw and overnight the blood to Animal Clinic Northview; they have their own progesterone testing machine. They have a world renowned reproductive specialist and can be found online.

You need to stick with the same lab every time. The reproductive specialist will advise you when they want you to do the next blood draw. Surgical AI is done 3 days after your dog reaches 5. If you are not diligent on testing you will not know when they hit 5. 5 is ovulation and date of birth of the pups is 63 days from ovulation, not AI or breeding. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me. One thing that you need to ask before scheduling an AI with any male is what the motility is after thaw, if it is not 60% or better the chances are that you will have no litter, small litter, pup re-absorption, etc.

 

[Breck]

LH surge coincides with first rise in progesterone, usually around 2 ng/ml.
Ovulation occurs about 2 days after LH surge, usually around 5 to 8 ng/ml.
Eggs take about 2 days to mature.
Eggs remain fertile about 2 to 3 days.
Fresh semen lives 5 to 7 days.
Fresh Chilled Semen lives 24 to 48 hours, occasionally longer.
Frozen Semen lives 12 to 24 hours post thaw.
The fertile period begins two days after ovulation and lasts about 2 to 3 days.

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Dr Hutch interview....
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http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1224&EVetID=3001496
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.An interesting take away from this interview is the fact that brucellosis can be transmitted to the bitch via AI.

 

[frontier]

[/quote]

Maybe I should show this to my girls..they are not following Dr. H.'s progestrone chart... 4 misses in a row in 12 months. Breeding and prog. testing according to the chart sometimes doesn't work either.

 

[ErinsEdge]

Maybe I should show this to my girls..they are not following Dr. H.'s progestrone chart... 4 misses in a row in 12 months. Breeding and prog. testing according to the chart sometimes doesn't work either.[/QUOTE]
I agree. For some reason some females need to be bred later or earlier.

 

[Tommy Wallace]

First sign was Sunday of bleeding, was told to bring her in on Thursday. She was at a .5 Got to take her back Tuesday to do another.
I can see to where this type of breeding can be a little pricey. A lot different than natural.

 

[RF2]

The tests work. This was our first litter. We did a baseline test 7th day with 3 followup tests to determine the exact ovulation date. Did a natural breeding with a single tie that produced 10 pups.