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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know several of you train without collars. I'm not necessarily on either side of the fence, but I do have a question for the guys who go collar-less. How do you get quicker whistle stop, especially at longer distances?
 

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You get it rock solid close, first.
 

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You get it rock solid close, first.
And would you follow that up with stretching him out while following behind them? So when they actually are "far" out, they really aren't when you give the command?

FOM
 

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And would you follow that up with stretching him out while following behind them? So when they actually are "far" out, they really aren't when you give the command?

FOM
Yes! That is exactly how I was trained to do it in my "non collar" days. It kinda bites when you get to "land/water/land" concepts. ;-)
 

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don't mean to hijack this thread... but this problem is the EXACT reason that I decided to go with an e-collar with my first dog. I kept getting loopy sits on the whistle and got tired of running out there to make a correction.

Good luck...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
don't mean to hijack this thread... but this problem is the EXACT reason that I decided to go with an e-collar with my first dog. I kept getting loopy sits on the whistle and got tired of running out there to make a correction.

Good luck...
Yes, Mike. This is really one of the only things that really pushes me toward using the e-collar. She loops around lolly-gaggin' until she sees me take 1 step forward, then she pops her tail down like I've already made it to her (I've run out 80 yards more than once)...

Definitely will be doing more going back to close distance and moving out again slowly.
 

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We do just the opposite : we start at distance, and teach the dog the line of the return first...kind of like a game

1.plant a sight blind at X amount of yards, heel the dog on the exact line you want them to run

2. turn the dog toward the mat and return say 25 yds, have the dog sit...handler returns to the mat

3. now you have options,

a. call the dog all the way in and send them to the sight blind

b. call them in and stop them at a desired distance, then either cast back or call them in some more, and stop them again

the dog has no choice but to square up and stop, if they peek over their shoulder at the bird, they dont get a cast, if they lock into the handler, they probably get a cast back...always give the dog the opposite of what they want
 

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I use a collar but have never had to on a whistle sit. Mine literally drags the ground trying to sit as quick as possible. I taught up close and extended out. The key is to go little by little and reward the sit at a distance by throwing a ball or bumper as soon as their butt hits the ground. You can stretch it out pretty far with just a chuckit and as far as you want if you have a remote winger or something set up. Try it. They learn really fast that the sooner they sit the sooner they get a retrieve. There has been no need for me to continually reinforce this either.
 

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Intermittently reward sits with quick bumpers. Quicker Pup sits, the quicker he gets something he wants.

Oops, didn't read the thread before responding. See dpate pegged it.
 

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Intermittently reward sits with quick bumpers. Quicker Pup sits, the quicker he gets something he wants.
This is what I do and it helps square the pup up also. I call it paying for a sit.
 

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I have very limited experience but think this is one of the things my dog is half-decent at. I took video a few weeks ago but can't find it now!I would first ask what you mean by "quicker whistle stops."

The three areas of concern I would think about:

1) Latency: (Time from when you give the cue to when the dog starts to respond)... if this is a challenge area, I'd review the cues in all settings, often dogs are slower to respond in -many- areas of their lives. I would address the concept of "respond immediately" in easier-to-control situations and then go back to the whistle sit context. If the dog ever gives me a slow response, I would immediately head out and get him and re-set the repetition. If I let him finish and then direct him elsewhere, I "accept" the behavior and he eventually gets the retrieve. The behavior has been reinforced. There are a few exceptions, but I rarely accept a slow response in any part of life.
2) Slow behavior: The dog starts to sit right away but takes forever to finish it. I would work on the behavior closer, for only a few reps at his most active time of day with a very active reinforcer. Often these dogs are slow with other behaviors. If the dog is slow to respond, I move in neutrally to interrupt, lead the dog back to re-set.
3) Loopy Sit/imperfect response. In my very very small amount of experience, these dogs often respond right away....and are moving fast...but interpret the behavior as "giant loop and sit" rather than whatever amount of turn and sit is acceptable. It seems that the faster the dog is going, the further from the handler, and the more intense in the retrieve, the more likely you are to get a loopy sit. We work one of the variables (distance from handler, speed of dog, enthusiasm for that retrieve) at a time, at whatever level we can get good sits. I recognize that I really don't need my dog skidding on a dime, but I do know what I accept and do not accept. if my dog ever gives me something too poor, I get him, reset and we go again. We never continue if he gave me a poor response. For dogs who are consistently giving a poor response here, even at a close distance, we look at placement of reinforcer. After the dog sits (or as he starts to turn to the handler to sit), a toy is tossed in such a way to reinforce the sit. I tried to find a video to show this...and I can't find something right now. Imagine the dog hears the whistle, spins clockwise to face the handler. As he's rotating to face me or after he sits (depending on dog/lesson/level of training), I'll toss the toy/bumper/use a ball launcher so it goes back behind the dog, to my left (his right), further reinforcing that clockwise spin. This gets the dogs really whipping around.
 

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They used to use a slingshot, a .22 with ratshot or a 12 gauge with birdshot before the collar...
 

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My dog is a crazy retriever. I sit her at the line with a whistle, not a verbal sit. Then follow this with the retrieve. I take her for a walk and whistle for a sit, then follow this with a retrieve. Get the idea? A whistle not only means sit, it also means that there is a retrieve. I started by saying that she is a crazy retriever---well I couldn't choose a better reinforcer than the retrieve.

Now when she is let loose to play in the yard, field, anywhere---I blow the whistle. I get an immediate sit and follow it up with a retrieve---no pressure, more like a happy bumper.

When I teach the baseball drill, I sit the dog at the pitcher's mound, walk back to home plate and face the dog. Even though the dog is already sitting, I blow the whistle sit, then give the cast. Again, the whistle signals that there will be a retrieve.

I believe that I have superconditioned the dog to sit, more like a conditioned reflex. I could be wrong and there may be better ways but I do get a nice sit from my dog---quick, no looping, and square.
 

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NYC, any auto cast issues?
 
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