[AmiableLabs]

Would you support a rule change that permitted a club that received more than eighty entries for any category of open stake to split that open stake into two separate stakes that run simultaneously if they have the grounds and resources to do so?

[I deleted my first posting of this question because it actually asked two questions in one.]

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

I would not support this.

Either you are handing out 2 blue ribbons, or...?

Obedience does this, but they have a number they come up with for each dog. At the end of the day, the dog with the highest number wins the class, regardless of how many dividions it was split into. No handing out of 2 blue ribbons.

Lisa

 

[AmiableLabs]

I just don't understand the opposition to this idea.

The clubs that have the grounds and resources are allowed to take one eighty-dog Open and split it into two forty-dog Opens. Different stakes, different tests, different judges, different dogs, different competitors, different winners, same club.

Where is the problem?!?!

 

[Paul Rainbolt]

Arent clubs only aloud to hold 2 opens a year? You would lose one of your Amatuer all age events if you had both opens on the same weekend since you cant hold an AM without an open.

 

[K G]

Paul,

This poll is in response to some proposals sent out by the RAC that might be considered with regard to dealing with large Open entries.

This is but one of several, and Kevin is soliciting feedback on why we would or wouldn't support it.

Keith Griffith

 

[Joe S.]

I just don't understand the opposition to this idea.

The clubs that have the grounds and resources are allowed to take one eighty-dog Open and split it into two forty-dog Opens. Different stakes, different tests, different judges, different dogs, different competitors, different winners, same club.

Where is the problem?!?!

Perhaps the problem could be one test, IT SEEMS, is ALMOST ALWAYS seen as "easier, better, nicer..." and there are currently enough issues to contend with for a club. It seems to me the HT clubs deal with these issues in the Master and they aren't looking for single winners.

Thinking Out Loud Regards,

Joe S.

 

[Tim Carrion]

Providing this "escape route" to the RAC/AKC would seriously cripple clubs with limited resources. We need to keep the powers to be thinking on how to allow clubs to control their own trial numbers and work load.

Tim

 

[W Knight]

The field trial chairman could wear out a 4 wheeler going between stakes.
We will have to hire a Judge employment service to come up with all these judges. Those clubs that throw their own birds will have to have both a vet and arm doctor on grounds.

So akc gets paid for 120 dogs instead of 60.

Get the name of the person who proposed this rule change.......He's FIRED.

 

[AmiableLabs]

We will have to hire.....

The rule proposal is offered as an option to those clubs that have the grounds and resources. It is not a mandate, just an option to those that want it.

So akc gets paid for 120 dogs instead of 60.

I don't understand. I thought eighty-dogs was eighty-dogs, regardless if they are entered in one Open with eighty entries or two Opens with forty entries?

 

[Paul Rainbolt]

Not trying to be difficult but, who picks which set of judges you run under, which pros are in which open that you compete against. Is the split announced after entries are accepted? I voted no on this one but i appreiciate you putting ideas on the table Kevin.

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

We need to keep the powers to be thinking on how to allow clubs to control their own trial numbers and work load.

Back again to my current hobby horse of having SEVERAL options available for clubs to choose from, to fit each club's unique circumstances...

But I can see this one just being a can-o'worms for clubs. Unless you have an exquisitely balanced panel, then there will be noise. "If I had been running in the other split..." You hear it at Master tests, and as joe S. says, they are not looking for a WINNER at these events.

How can you ensure a balanced panel, when clubs are scrambling to fill the chairs as it is? Bottom line: you can't.

Can-o'worms.

Lisa

 

[Ted Shih]

This is exceedingly impracticable.

First, only a handful of clubs have sufficient grounds to support two open stakes simultaneously.

Second, even fewer clubs have sufficient help and grounds to support two open stakes simultaneously.

By the way, what are we going to do with the 80+ dog Amateur stakes.
Have double Open stakes - and - double Amateur stakes?
How many clubs have the grounds and help to support four All Age stakes simultaneously?

Third, what will these clubs do about judges? Our club books judges our primary judges 3 years in advance ... It is very difficult to get good judges on the spur of the moment ...

Fourth, how will contestants be divided between the two simultaneously running stakes?

Fifth, assuming that a workable system is put in place where dogs are randomly assigned between the two simultaneous stakes, think about the basic mechanics of running a trial ....

On Friday, Pros will be running between two Open stakes and the Qual.
On Saturday, Pros will be running between two Open stakes and the Derby.
On Saturday, Amateurs will be running between two Open stakes, two Amateur stakes, and a Derby.
On Sunday, Amateurs will be running between two Open stakes, two Amateur stakes, and a Derby.

What do you think will happen to the smooth and swift operation of the Field Trial?

By the way, can you imagine what the honor will be like now?

Ted

 

[bgregory]

This seems like a no-brainer to me. I have not heard a con yet that will hold any water.

For the club holding the event, if you have the grounds, judges, equipment, and help, then what is the problem? It will be up to the club hosting the event to make that decision. It would not be forced on them.

As a competitor, if I enter an event that turns out to be a 100 dog Open with say four top pros with 10 dogs each. Who, in their right mind would not want it split and run against half the field?? Your dog still has to do the work. Sure, I can complain about which stake I was put in. But then someone could remind me that I could be running against all the field.

As for handlers with multiple dogs, a logical solution would be to put them in the same stake. This can still be done randomly by draw. That way there is no difference going from Open to Am. to Qual. or derby than it would be if there were only one Open stake. This is done in Hunt test with Master, Senior, and Junior running at one time. Is there an occasional problem...Yes. But the benefits drastically out weigh the cons.

This is an option, and in my opinion, a good one. Lets open that can of worms and go fishing.

Butch