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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
The majority of people who like to run field trials do not qualify for the Nationals and and want to run their dog.
They would obviously be better off training instead.
I speak from experience on that.
Their was a tradition that once a titled dog had qualified for the nationals it did not run weekend trials.
Last weekend I heard complaints about low entry numbers and the club going in the red for the event, followed by "that dog is already qualified, he/she shouldn't have entered."

If only non-qualified dogs and handlers that intended to go to Oregon entered, there may not have been enough dogs running to award championship points.
 

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The majority of people who like to run field trials do not qualify for the Nationals and and want to run their dog.
Traditions come and go
Their was a tradition that once a titled dog had qualified for the nationals it did not run weekend trials. High point rankings ended that
Your tenure precedes mine because not running a dog after it qualified ended prior to my involvement and it was not a tradition just a show of sportsmanship. I would love to run a trial the weekend of the NARC, here is competition that would NOT be there because they will be in Oregon.
Pam Wilson 2 dogs
Lauren Hays 3 dogs
Sylvia McClure 3 dogs
Suzan Caire 2 dogs
Robby Bickley 2 dogs
Dan Hurst 2 dogs
Mark Littlejohn 1 dog
Wayne Stupka 1 dog
Trent Goree 1 dog
Sorry if I have forgotten someone from my circuit but you get the point, so much easier to win when the major competitors are in absentia. We have two National Championships which consume 4 weekends which leaves 48 weekends to hold field trials so tell me again what is so compelling about holding events on those 4 weekends.
 
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It looks as though you and Stan have formulated an argument that insufficient competition would result in undeserving dogs receiving Championship points.

Many FC and AFC titled dogs either are not entered in the Championship's or fail to qualify in any given year. Apparently, you both feel that these titled dogs and their handlers would provide inferior competition.

At least in Stan's case, I find that interesting. By his own admission, and as the record clearly shows, after earning 6 points via a win and two 4ths in 2020, he chose to enter the Golden Retriever National Specialty. This is an event he has referred to several times as being "the Special Olympics of Retrievers" on this forum, which boasted only 2 titled dogs in the Amateur and 2 in the Open in 2020, the year that he ran his dog in it. Now if someone is all about competing against the top dogs and handlers, I am at a loss as to why one would do that. -Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I could run in an open during the NARC, but I won't.
Here is who else won't be entering it;
Jeffrey Schuett 3 dogs
Joe Couey 1 dog
Mark Medford 3 dogs
Charlie Hines 1 dog
Rick Wilke 1 dog
Jane Dunn 1 dog
Jim Powers 1 dog
Scott Leonescu 1 dog
Julie Kobach 1 dog
Jim Horneck 1 dog
I know of many others, qualified and not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
It looks as though you and Stan have formulated an argument that insufficient competition would result in undeserving dogs receiving Championship points.
That is the reason the event in question is being held during the NARC. I understand that you and many others are not aware of this but it is common knowledge for us "locals".

Many FC and AFC titled dogs either are not entered in the Championship's or fail to qualify in any given year. Apparently, you both feel that these titled dogs and their handlers would provide inferior competition.
Prediction; The Open in Wisconsin held during the national will draw few if any titled dogs, no top level pros and zero dogs that are qualified for the NARC. It closes next Monday, please let me know what you think of the competition. ;)

At least in Stan's case, I find that interesting. By his own admission, and as the record clearly shows, after earning 6 points via a win and two 4ths in 2020, he chose to enter the Golden Retriever National Specialty. This is an event he has referred to several times as being "the Special Olympics of Retrievers" on this forum, which boasted only 2 titled dogs in the Amateur and 2 in the Open in 2020, the year that he ran his dog in it. Now if someone is all about competing against the top dogs and handlers, I am at a loss as to why one would do that. -Paul
It was a win and a 3rd that earned 6 points. (as the record clearly shows)
I did enter the Special Olympics. I can call it that, you cannot;)
I was encouraged to enter by several people that put in a great deal of time and hard work to make the event happen.

You can believe it or reject it, I would not have entered the national if I had qualified with specialty points.

You may not be aware, Special O points are different, only 5 count toward a title and a win doesn't count as a win toward a title.
A Specialty win and 2 does qualify a dog for the national. It should not IMO.
The points shouldn't count toward FC/AFC titles either IMO, it cheapens the titles of Goldens, Peaks.... earned the right way. -Stan
 

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Competitive? Maybe at a level comparable to a Golden or Peak specialty?
[/QUOTE
Since when did the RAC concern itself with equality in entry size or level of competition in awarding points?
Unlike other AKC FTs our points are the whether the entry is 12 or 112.
Points in an Open= Limited = Special = Restricted.
Retriever requirements for FC/AFC also differ in regards to breed specialty FTs. Other ft venues place a HIGHER value on breed competition requiring or in some cases doubling the value of specialty points
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
"Since when did the RAC concern itself with equality in entry size or level of competition in awarding points?"
A long time ago? Maybe Dr Ed or Marvin know the answer.
 

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i oppose any weekend trial running All Age Stakes during a National Championship Stake but I wish the proponents of doing so would just admit their motivation rather than making up reasons other than the obvious.
 
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
1)If not Alaska, where would you suggest an Alaska club hold their trial?

2) Reduced/diluted competition!!
1)If not Alaska, where would you suggest an Alaska club hold their trial?

2) less competition
Outstanding!
Correct with both posts.

Now for the extra credit question;
Alaska is a long way from the rest of of the field trial world. They can pick any weekend they want to hold a trial.
Why didn't they opt for one of the weekends during a national?
 

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i oppose any weekend trial running All Age Stakes during a National Championship Stake but I wish the proponents of doing so would just admit their motivation rather than making up reasons other than the obvious.
Ed, some here ask why, some here ask why not. In your opinion what are the obvious reasons?
 

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Outstanding!
Correct with both posts.

Now for the extra credit question;
Alaska is a long way from the rest of of the field trial world. They can pick any weekend they want to hold a trial.
Why didn't they opt for one of the weekends during a national?
A simple solution to this would be for your club/clubs to give up their weekend for this club who wants to hold a trial on a National weekend. Your club/clubs in turn hold their trials the first weekend in March and the first weekend in December.

Simple, problem solved all around.
 

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1)If not Alaska, where would you suggest an Alaska club hold their trial?

2) less competition
If this is your argument for the club in question to not hold a trial on the weekend they are requesting then one would have to assume that you feel the Alaska clubs should not be able to hold FT. Or I guess what you might be saying is that the new standard/requirement for entries at any given AA stake needs to be above a certain number of competing dogs as is the case for the Derby stake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
A simple solution to this would be for your club/clubs to give up their weekend for this club who wants to hold a trial on a National weekend.
Do you know anything about the club in question, it's history or have a personal connection?
If this is your argument for the club in question to not hold a trial on the weekend they are requesting then one would have to assume that you feel the Alaska clubs should not be able to hold FT.
Again; Why do Alaska clubs have trials in Alaska?
I guess what you might be saying is that the new standard/requirement for entries at any given AA stake needs to be above a certain number of competing dogs
The number is 12 eligible to compete in a Limited All-Age, Special All-Age or Restricted All-Age Stake, been that way for a while, nothing new.
 

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Your sole argument against this club seems to be about competition. That being the case you are also saying then that the clubs in Alaska should not be allowed to hold trials.

As for the "new" requirement number I was thinking more on the lines of 40-50 dogs. I would think that should alleviate your concern about competition.
 

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"I did enter the Special Olympics. I can call it that, you cannot."

Can you not see that this is in extremely poor taste? By reiterating it you are offering a window into your true character, which is, sadly, lacking.

And no, I don't believe your reason for entering the event, nor do I believe you would not have used points you might have earned.
 
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