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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In Senior B at Tidewater, instead of going to the memory bird, my dog ran to the blind in both series, circled around the memory bird station before I had to handle her to get the memory bird. Needless to say, I did not get a pass in that test. What should I have done in the test or what can I do or how should I fix it in training or future tests?
 

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sounds like you need to work on marking and memory. How close was the blind planted to memory bird or are you talking about gunners station not blind bird?
 

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do you put your hand down for marks as well as for blinds...or is your command sequence (release on name or back) differ from marks and blinds
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am talking about the blind bird. The blind bird was about 25 to 30 yards from the memory bird. I do not put my hand down on marks, just blinds. And I release her on name with marks and "back" with blinds.
 

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that seems awfully close for the blind to be planted that close to a mark. I don't thinks I've seen a hot blind that close to a mark in Senior. Too easy to wind blind on a marked retrieve. Were other dogs having the same problem?
 

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that seems awfully close for the blind to be planted that close to a mark. I don't thinks I've seen a hot blind that close to a mark in Senior. Too easy to wind blind on a marked retrieve. Were other dogs having the same problem?
I agree. How long was the memory bird and which direction was the wind blowing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That is the thing. The blind was not hot on either series. It is as if she ran those very blinds 1000 times and saying "That is where the bird is, are you blind"And I did not see other dogs having the same problem. The memory bird on the first series was about 40 yds and 60-65yds on the second series. I do not recall which direction the wind was blowing.
 

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In Senior B at Tidewater, instead of going to the memory bird, my dog ran to the blind in both series, circled around the memory bird station before I had to handle her to get the memory bird. Needless to say, I did not get a pass in that test. What should I have done in the test or what can I do or how should I fix it in training or future tests?
Help me understand what you are saying...

Was there a bird at the blind (a hot blind)? I don't like a hot blind close to the area of the fall (25 yards is too close in my book).

Was one of the series not water? Did your dog swim rather than run to one of the blinds?

Do you teach blinds by having the dog run to a visable object, bucket, stakem etc...?

Was there a blind stake or something else that drew your dog's attention away from the memory bird?

Has your dog been successful on doubles in training?

Where is the dog at in training?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The blind was not hot. One series was land and the other was water. I do not use visible objects on blinds during training. And there was not anything to mark the blind at the test. I had trouble where the blind was exactly.

She is doing triple in training. And I am doing master setups in training(triples, double blinds, etc.)
 

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On the water mark I'd guess you might have sent the dog a little fat left and the point the blind was being planted(not hot) was the closest land and dog went to it and if you had to handle on the land series you didn't have a handle left. One of mine headed for that point as well and I had to handle her back into that cove but I was clean on land so we were good. I didn't see your dog run but on land that long flyer was wiping out that short walk up bird for alot of dogs so I might think your dog had no idea where it was and just went left and got scent where the blind was being planted.
 

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Help me understand what you are saying...?
I am also lost.
I thought, from the OP the dog ran to and circled the blind holding the memory bird workers.
Then I thought, from the other post the dog ran to the spot the blind retrieve was planted, but no bird was there 'cause the blind was not hot.
I am also lost.
Take us all back to the first holding blind. Somebody said "Dog to line" you and Rover steped out.... take it from there please.


.
 

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I did not see other dogs having the same problem. The memory bird on the first series was about 40 yds and 60-65yds on the second series. I do not recall which direction the wind was blowing.
I was watching Senior B, land series. The first test dog they ran, the blind was hot. The test dog picked up the blind after running past the memory. The memory was right of the blind, downwind @ times. When the test dog did this, the judges decided to wait until both marks were picked up before planting the blind.

I saw a lot of dogs blow past the memory and end up where the blind was going to be planted.

I did not know you could get dropped because your dog went into the area of the blind before picking up the memory? That's not a switch is it?
 

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Sounds like a miserable test setup to me....... but I didnt see it and wasnt there......:D
 

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No. It's not a switch if there is no bird there. A dog that gets wind of an old blind, goes there and then returns to find her mark has not switched. May not have shown marking ability but did not "switch."

The OP asked what he should do. If it's an issue of blowing past a short mark, that's something to work on. Vary mark lengths and develop a cue to let pup know when it's a short bird. I try "easy" but my guy only knows one speed so that does not always work.
You may be at the point where you should start more technical mark setups. In line doubles, tight doubles, marks downwind of scent, long go bird with short - I mean really short - memory birds. Also selection drills so pup knows to "go where sent." Be easy with the pressure, especially as you introduce these concepts. You don't want to confuse pup or compromise her drive. You are trying to educate pup to use its eyes and memory and not just the nose. Except when you need the nose.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK, here is what happened. The first series was a walk up. The memory bird was about 35-40 yds and the go bird was about 55-60yds, to the right of the memory bird. The blind was about 40-45yds, to the left. She did fine on the go bird. I lined her up and sent her(no hand down nor did I know where the blind was. Did not know that series had a blind.) She towards where the blind would be placed but did not start a hunt there. She blew past the blind and circled around the memory bird starting to go back to the go bird, thinking there was another. That is when I started to handle her to the memory bird. Pretty much the same situation on the water series.

Can you explain selection drills to me? I never heard of them.
 

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Selection drills sounds like "Lining Drills", getting your dog to swing with you to get a better line to the memory bird. Your dog could have given you a look that appeared to line up with the go bird, but then lied to you when it went in the direction of the blind instead. Doing selection/lining drills you can catch your dog doing that and teach it to take a better line. IMHO

Did not mean to offer advice, I could have crashed and burned during the test you ran, it was not easy.
 

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Also selection drills so pup knows to "go where sent."

Good luck.
Hi Bob, nice post, thank you. If you have any specific drills to address selection that would be great to share. Especially in the case of short memory bird and tight long go bird (i.e. HRC finished which loves this stuff).
Hey, are you & Macy going to the GRCA national this year?
 

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I was watching Senior B, land series. The first test dog they ran, the blind was hot. The test dog picked up the blind after running past the memory. The memory was right of the blind, downwind @ times. When the test dog did this, the judges decided to wait until both marks were picked up before planting the blind.

I saw a lot of dogs blow past the memory and end up where the blind was going to be planted.

I did not know you could get dropped because your dog went into the area of the blind before picking up the memory? That's not a switch is it?
I believe he got dropped for the 2nd handle on water.
 

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Sounds like a miserable test setup to me....... but I didnt see it and wasnt there......:D
Wasn't that bad. It was tough but fair. The go bird was a flyer and it kinda wiped out the memory on the short bird because most dogs had to hunt it in thick green grass. I wish I knew how to draw it on here.
 

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OK, here is what happened. The first series was a walk up. The memory bird was about 35-40 yds and the go bird was about 55-60yds, to the right of the memory bird. The blind was about 40-45yds, to the left. She did fine on the go bird. I lined her up and sent her(no hand down nor did I know where the blind was. Did not know that series had a blind.) She towards where the blind would be placed but did not start a hunt there. She blew past the blind and circled around the memory bird starting to go back to the go bird, thinking there was another. That is when I started to handle her to the memory bird. Pretty much the same situation on the water series.

Can you explain selection drills to me? I never heard of them.
I can't explain selection drills as I've never heard of them either. I can explain primary, secondary, and ideal selection but don't think that will help you with a double.

Checking down on a short bird after going long is a skill that you need to train for. In training, how often do you run a long go bird and short memory bird?

Also, many folks use ques to help their dogs remember a bird when they may be a bit fuzzy. What ques do you use at the line before sending the dog.

I put a hand down to send on the go bird and also on the long bird that I usually pick up last (I use secondary selection most of the time) in a triple, but I don't put the hand down for the short bird. That is a cue to the dog that we are going short. After the dog returns with the go bird and we line up for the short memory bird, I'll get the dog focused and tell the dog "easy" in a soft voice before taking the bird from the dog. That is a cue to the dog that we are going short. When sending for the short bird, I'll send in a soft voice. That is a cue to the dog that we are going short.

There are many marking setups you can run to enhance short bird marking. I recommend you check out Retrievers ONLINE and look at the index of articles for ideas. In general, work on long go birds with a short memory bird. You can also run a long blind before a short mark.
 
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