[minnducker]

So as not to highjack a recent thread, (that was big-time highjacked already), a poster asked about achieving FC, MH, GMHR, and I’m curious as to how the participants in this forum view the established retriever titles and accomplishments in relation to each other. What are your experiences and opinions.
For example, in FT’s, what if anything is equivalent to an FC title? Is it 3 + passes at a Master National? Is a JH title equivalent to winning a Derby, or getting on the Derby list? What in the hunt test game is about the same as achieving “qualification” in FT’s? Is anyone aware of anything “official” that establishes any relationships between these venues? My experience is totally in one of these venues, and is not real recent, and I know things change.

 

[Jacob Hawkes]

The only relationship in FTs & HTs is people & dogs run the setups as a "Team". For the love of everything worth noting, never try to compare a JH title to winning a derby.

 

[road kill]

I like to use a sports analogy;

Professional (1 Champion)
NCAA D-1
NCAA D-2 / NAIA
NCAA D-3
NJCAA (Junior College)

You do the math.
All worthy endeavors.

RK

 

[Angie B]

Field trials are competitive and hunt tests are not. So you really can't compare the 2 venues. Other then the dogs picking up birds.

Retriever field trials are extremely difficult. Heck you can't compare one type of field champion to the other. ie as in a beagle FC to a retriever FC. They're light years apart in difficulty and subject.

Angie

 

[stonybrook]

So as not to highjack a recent thread, (that was big-time highjacked already), a poster asked about achieving FC, MH, GMHR, and I’m curious as to how the participants in this forum view the established retriever titles and accomplishments in relation to each other. What are your experiences and opinions.
For example, in FT’s, what if anything is equivalent to an FC title? Is it 3 + passes at a Master National? Is a JH title equivalent to winning a Derby, or getting on the Derby list? What in the hunt test game is about the same as achieving “qualification” in FT’s? Is anyone aware of anything “official” that establishes any relationships between these venues? My experience is totally in one of these venues, and is not real recent, and I know things change.

For anyone that has never attended a FT (or to a lesser extent, a Master test), I highly suggest you do so. You have no idea what the ability is of these awesome animals until you see them perform in person. Your mouth will be hanging WIDE open when you see their capabilities.

Once you see that, you'll understand why it's so difficult to achieve and the amount of training it takes to get there.

 

[captainjack]

There was a thread going several months back where folks were ranking various titles. You may e able to find it by searching.

One way to judge a relationship between various titles is by the difficulty in obtaining said title. I believe hands down the most difficult title to obtain is FC (of course NFC). Someone on RTF put a percentage on dogs that were started and trained for FC that actually make it. Don't remember the number and like most stats it was likely made up on the spot. But the percentage was single digits and that is probably in the ball park.

Another way to judge is the relationship in accomplishments is by the $ value others place on the dog. It is not uncommon for dogs that make the derby list to sell as AA prospects for $1,000 or more per derby point. Tens of thousands of $ change hands for prospects. I've never heard of any HT dog selling in this range (doesn't mean that it hasn't happened).

Within the hunt test world, GRHRCH may be the most difficult title to obtain, There have only been a few hundred to get a GRHRCH title. I heard Chris Akin at a seminar say that his goal for HT dogs was GRHRCH MH QAA. Those titles/designations would put a HT dog near the top of that venue for sure.

 

[DoubleHaul]

For anyone that has never attended a FT (or to a lesser extent, a Master test), I highly suggest you do so. You have no idea what the ability is of these awesome animals until you see them perform in person. Your mouth will be hanging WIDE open when you see their capabilities.

In particular, go watch the Open water marks on Sunday. I took a friend who was a HT guy who had never seen a FT to one. Land marks were not that impressive just to look at unless you knew the dogs and handlers going down in flames--good bird placement. My friend was saying "My dog could do that".

When he saw the money mark in the open his mouth was literally gaping as he wondered how in the heck one could train a dog to pull that one out.

 

[Duckquilizer]

Or a 300 yrd retired gun with 3 angled water re-entries, stacked in behind a 150 yd gun station, a flyer go bird fairly tight on the left, with 2 other "easy" marks to the right...

 

[RJW]

For anyone that has never attended a FT (or to a lesser extent, a Master test), I highly suggest you do so. You have no idea what the ability is of these awesome animals until you see them perform in person. Your mouth will be hanging WIDE open when you see their capabilities.

Once you see that, you'll understand why it's so difficult to achieve and the amount of training it takes to get there.

Well said.

 

[Buzz]

In particular, go watch the Open water marks on Sunday. I took a friend who was a HT guy who had never seen a FT to one. Land marks were not that impressive just to look at unless you knew the dogs and handlers going down in flames--good bird placement. My friend was saying "My dog could do that".

When he saw the money mark in the open his mouth was literally gaping as he wondered how in the heck one could train a dog to pull that one out.

Five years ago I put my first dog into training for field trials. At the time I figured I needed to be a member of a club and work trials to help give back to the sport, since I would have a dog running around running trials with a pro.

So, the first time I saw the water series of an Open, I was throwing the long retired. I was sitting in a wrap around blind brushed up to the hilt, and I could sit and watch the dogs work. They started out with a huge quad, but the test dog went down in flames so they pared it back to a triple. Still PLENTY of test. I was working that day with one of the older gentleman at our club, a guy who had run dogs in the National. He asks me, so what do you think about this test? I told him that if I thought I'd ever have a dog that could do that, I should have my head examined. Funny thing is, now I have two dogs who would have had a shot at getting that series done.

 

[Losthwy]

So as not to highjack a recent thread, (that was big-time highjacked already), a poster asked about achieving FC, MH, GMHR, and I’m curious as to how the participants in this forum view the established retriever titles and accomplishments in relation to each other. What are your experiences and opinions.
For example, in FT’s, what if anything is equivalent to an FC title? Nothing.
Is it 3 + passes at a Master National? No
Is a JH title equivalent to winning a Derby, or getting on the Derby list? No. Derbys do doubles and marks are more difficult.
What in the hunt test game is about the same as achieving “qualification” in FT’s? Nothing. That said, the step from MH to the Qual is like the step from SH to MH.
Is anyone aware of anything “official” that establishes any relationships between these venues? No, there is none.
My experience is totally in one of these venues, and is not real recent, and I know things change.

GMPR- Jr. High
GMHR- High School
MH- High School
AFC/FC- The NFL

 

[Duckquilizer]

GMPR- Jr. High
GMHR- High School
MH- High School
AFC/FC- The NFL

Oh come on now...MH is at least JR college. Most anyone can graduate from High school.

 

[stonybrook]

Does anyone have any data re:

# of JH/SR/SHR earned each year
# of MH/MHR/HRCH earned each year
# of QAA each year
# of AFC earned each year
# of FC earned each year

Those stats would be very interesting to see over time. Taking those stats, combined with the total number running in each venue, would be extremely enlightening I imagine.

FWIW - I thought one time that I had heard that about 1% of the total number of Labradors registered by the AKC run HT's.

 

[Duckquilizer]

Does anyone have any data re:

# of JH/SR/SHR earned each year
# of MH/MHR/HRCH earned each year
# of QAA each year
# of AFC earned each year
# of FC earned each year

Those stats would be very interesting to see over time. Taking those stats, combined with the total number running in each venue, would be extremely enlightening I imagine.

FWIW - I thought one time that I had heard that about 1% of the total number of Labradors registered by the AKC run HT's.

With the number of people training straight to MH, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were a higher percent MH than JH. Not saying there is. That was just a generalization with no facts.

 

[stonybrook]

Possibly. However, # of people training for and # of actual titles achieved may be more different than one thinks. Pass rate in Junior is typically much higher than in Master and many more folks run for a JH and then are never heard of again at the next levels up.

 

[Duckquilizer]

Agree. And it would be interesting to know the numbers.

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

Can't compare the two, ones competitive, ones not, There is definitely Superior, Good and Mediocre Dogs in all the forums. However One tells you at the end of the Day who's best (at least for that day) . Now who's to say the superior dogs of any venue won't do well in any of the other venues. The only way to find that out is to run them, most people stick to one or the other. Seems like I'm seeing fewer and fewer FC-MH these days. The focus of each venue is very different, and it's hard to be competitive with a spit focus. Especially when all your competitors are training everyday of the week, year around, for nothing but FT blue.

 

[Losthwy]

SPORTING BREEDS 2010​

................................................... JH SH MH FC AFC
Retrievers (Chesapeake Bay) 81 48 19 1
Retrievers (Curly-Coated) 6
Retrievers (Flat-Coated) 50 20 13
Retrievers (Golden) 231 110 78 1
Retrievers (Labrador) 1,189 697 483 61 52​

Retrievers (N S D Tolling) 19 11 4

 

[Steve Hester]

Oh come on now...MH is at least JR college. Most anyone can graduate from High school.

I disagree. GRHRCH would be junior college.

 

[Criquetpas]

So as not to highjack a recent thread, (that was big-time highjacked already), a poster asked about achieving FC, MH, GMHR, and I’m curious as to how the participants in this forum view the established retriever titles and accomplishments in relation to each other. What are your experiences and opinions.
For example, in FT’s, what if anything is equivalent to an FC title? Is it 3 + passes at a Master National? Is a JH title equivalent to winning a Derby, or getting on the Derby list? What in the hunt test game is about the same as achieving “qualification” in FT’s? Is anyone aware of anything “official” that establishes any relationships between these venues? My experience is totally in one of these venues, and is not real recent, and I know things change.

Why a Licensed Derby are just doubles aren't they? All the venues are different and should be dealt with along those lines. In my opinion as far as difficulty to obtain, talent ,training level ,field trials are the "top of the Mountain" as far as the all-age is concerned. Again in my opinion to put it in perspective , buzz words such as transition training is what for the "most" part ends the discussion at the MH and Grand level maybe a smattering of advanced work for the MHN and the Grand. HRCH is again in my opinion Transition or even advanced basics. Qualified All-age requires transition plus advanced. To obtain a FC or AFC requires advanced and then more advanced then more. For the most part all venues require a "good dog". The path to get to these levels is very different indeed and would require much more then a few lines.

Could anyone of these levels if the dog, training, experience make it to the top of the mountain sure, but not many. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. As an example I know of at least one 170 point FC/AFC (thats a lot of AA FT points) that has two Junior Passes at the beggining of it's career and is so listed on the AKC points. The road turned for the owners.