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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My 1st lab, 3 y/o BLF. HRCH at 25months, trained and titled by pro. Planning this breeding since last fall, talking with trainer, Vet, and others in the game that have years of experiance... Fast forward.

Wednesday Feb 27 notice 1st blood, although my GSP fixed female had been sniffing around my lab for a few weeks so I knew to watch.
1st Progesterone done on Sat 3/2 at 10am. it read .3, cost was $78. Also had Brucellosis test, $73.
2nd test done on Monday 3/4 at 9am, it came back .4, cost $60
3rd test done on Thursday 3/7 at 9am, it came back 1.1, cost $60
Seeing a slight rise, and knowing the weekend coming, not able to test on weekend, and the stud dog 4.5 hours away.
4th test done on Friday 3/8 at 4:15pm, it came back 2.3. Now we're getting somewhere, I'm thinking.
Talk to stud owner, (not new at this) they recommend set up appointment at there local Repro for Monday am, and if needed, side by side is available. Called, made appt for 11:20. They have a 2-3 hour turn time on results. Perfect for me.
5th test done at breeder Vet on Monday 3/11 at 11:20, it comes back 22.1 Cost $137 includes new patient exam, smear, blood draw, Progesterone test, and waste fee.

By the time they called me (3pm) with the results, I'm with the breeder discussing dog stuff, so, Repro Vet recommends try to get 1st tie soon. Out we go to the Magic Carpet, I think she called it. :) Now my girl (an Alpha female) is a first timer at this, and so am I. The benefit to be involved with those who are veterans at this - Priceless. Breeder explains the process to me, but my girl is all about the birds, not so much about the birds and the bees. Takes 15 minutes before he connects, as she wouldn't lift her tail. This is where experiance comes in again. Tie lasted about 25 minutes.
A hand shake, and down the road I go, leaving her behind, (I hate that part). Breeder gets another tie yesterday, 3/12 at around 4pm. I'll go back to get her this Saturday.

Now, I have consulted several who know this business, including a University Repro dept. and am hopeful the results are on target. It has been said that after the 1.1 she may double that # daily, she did, then spiked over 3 days. It is also suggested that the spike may indicate a large number of eggs were released. (My female was born in a litter of 13, irrelavent?) We dicided she likely ovulated on Saturday, and think we hit the timing for the 1st tie at the optimum time, as sperm lives for several days in the female. I know many of the veterans and experts on RTF have some thoughts as to what the possibilities are, and we can all learn from hearing it. So tell me what you think I did right, did wrong, and how many black and yellows I should see around Mothers Day 2013. Both dogs are black - yellow factored.

If this post belongs somewhere else, I apologize.
 

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Sounds like you did everything you could do right.

Each puppy has a 25% chance of being black with no factoring, 50% chance of being black with yellow factoring and a 25% chance being yellow. Couple litters I know of personally of the same genetice make up with the following results:

2 black and 4 yellow
6 black (same mating as above) All 6 carried yellow as the breeder tested.

8 black
8 black (same mating as above)

2 black and 4 yellow

All of these both dogs tested as carrying the yellow gene, so predicting is a bit crazy.
 

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My 1st lab, 3 y/o BLF. HRCH at 25months, trained and titled by pro. Planning this breeding since last fall, talking with trainer, Vet, and others in the game that have years of experiance... Fast forward.

Wednesday Feb 27 notice 1st blood, although my GSP fixed female had been sniffing around my lab for a few weeks so I knew to watch.
1st Progesterone done on Sat 3/2 at 10am. it read .3, cost was $78. Also had Brucellosis test, $73.
2nd test done on Monday 3/4 at 9am, it came back .4, cost $60
3rd test done on Thursday 3/7 at 9am, it came back 1.1, cost $60
Seeing a slight rise, and knowing the weekend coming, not able to test on weekend, and the stud dog 4.5 hours away.
4th test done on Friday 3/8 at 4:15pm, it came back 2.3. Now we're getting somewhere, I'm thinking.
Talk to stud owner, (not new at this) they recommend set up appointment at there local Repro for Monday am, and if needed, side by side is available. Called, made appt for 11:20. They have a 2-3 hour turn time on results. Perfect for me.
5th test done at breeder Vet on Monday 3/11 at 11:20, it comes back 22.1 Cost $137 includes new patient exam, smear, blood draw, Progesterone test, and waste fee.

By the time they called me (3pm) with the results, I'm with the breeder discussing dog stuff, so, Repro Vet recommends try to get 1st tie soon. Out we go to the Magic Carpet, I think she called it. :) Now my girl (an Alpha female) is a first timer at this, and so am I. The benefit to be involved with those who are veterans at this - Priceless. Breeder explains the process to me, but my girl is all about the birds, not so much about the birds and the bees. Takes 15 minutes before he connects, as she wouldn't lift her tail. This is where experiance comes in again. Tie lasted about 25 minutes.
A hand shake, and down the road I go, leaving her behind, (I hate that part). Breeder gets another tie yesterday, 3/12 at around 4pm. I'll go back to get her this Saturday.

Now, I have consulted several who know this business, including a University Repro dept. and am hopeful the results are on target. It has been said that after the 1.1 she may double that # daily, she did, then spiked over 3 days. It is also suggested that the spike may indicate a large number of eggs were released. (My female was born in a litter of 13, irrelavent?) We dicided she likely ovulated on Saturday, and think we hit the timing for the 1st tie at the optimum time, as sperm lives for several days in the female. I know many of the veterans and experts on RTF have some thoughts as to what the possibilities are, and we can all learn from hearing it. So tell me what you think I did right, did wrong, and how many black and yellows I should see around Mothers Day 2013. Both dogs are black - yellow factored, female may be tri-factored, waiting VetGen results on that.

If this post belongs somewhere else, I apologize.
Was there a question that I missed buried in the narative?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
EdA, not really a question, but asking for you to summarize the overall process, as written. If you think something should have been done different, say so. Not that it matters now for this breeding, as that part is over. Predictions can be fun on RTF.
 

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EdA, not really a question, but asking for you to summarize the overall process, as written. If you think something should have been done different, say so. Not that it matters now for this breeding, as that part is over. Predictions can be fun on RTF.
If she conceives and has a normal sized litter everything was perfect, is she does not conceive that is not necessarily an indication that everything was not perfect.
 

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About the only thing I see is this... that first progesterone test seems a bit early. First blood seen on Wed., Feb 27 and first test on Sat., 3/2 means testing on 3rd maybe 4th day. We do our first test on the 6th day. However, if you thought maybe she came in earlier than on Wed., doing the test on Sat. was OK to establish where she was.

From your narrative, I don't see anything that you could have done differently. She ovulated on the weekend and the first breeding was on Monday followed by another on Tuesday. You should get puppies. If you don't, that's the way nature works sometimes.

Helen
 

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Discussion Starter #9
About the only thing I see is this... that first progesterone test seems a bit early. First blood seen on Wed., Feb 27 and first test on Sat., 3/2 means testing on 3rd maybe 4th day. We do our first test on the 6th day. However, if you thought maybe she came in earlier than on Wed., doing the test on Sat. was OK to establish where she was.

From your narrative, I don't see anything that you could have done differently. She ovulated on the weekend and the first breeding was on Monday followed by another on Tuesday. You should get puppies. If you don't, that's the way nature works sometimes.

Helen
I knew that the 1st test was earlier than needed, as told by Vet and others. I did it to start establishing a base line. It was not cost prohibitive, and I felt that b/c it was her first time I'd like to have as much info as possible, therefore, a longer base line to document the process. I'm no scientist, but when it's my dog, I became very interested in all I could learn.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Who are you using for your progesterones John? Looks like you did everything right and just got caught by the weekend. Good luck! It's nerve racking I know!
Matt, my local Vet is Dr. Woodruff at the Pet clinic of Brownsburg. I am very fortunate to have a good Vet close by. Though he is not a Repro Vet he is very knowledgeable on the topic, and had the right answer to everything I asked. The other Vet I used in Michigan was Sarah Shull DVM at Family Friends Vet Hospital in Grand Rapids. She specializes in Repro, and has a wonderful staff supporting her. I must also give mention to my resident expert that I've been in contact daily with, Bill. He has loads of experience doing progeterone tests, laboratory proceedures, and dogs, heat cycles, breeding, and the list goes on. With out him always picking up the phone when I called, I would have worried my way through this. He and I are both confidant this is a sucessful breeding. I purposely left out his full name, though he is very well known in the circles of dog people.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
From my very limited knowledge it looks like your ovulation was probably Saturday/early Sunday with the eggs being "mature" about 48 hours later.
That's what we thought at the time, and so we proceeded as described. We (many people involved with this) feel we hit the target, and hope for a great 1st litter.

Looks like you have colored your hair, and where is that cool sweater you had in the other picture? :cool:
 

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Don't know anything about breeding but I do know this: my daughter's boykin was bred througj the fence by one of my labs, 10 healthy labraboykins!

Lonnie Spann
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Don't know anything about breeding but I do know this: my daughter's boykin was bred througj the fence by one of my labs, 10 healthy labraboykins!

Lonnie Spann
I thought they called those Boykidors? Got any pictures to post?
 

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My 1st lab, 3 y/o BLF. HRCH at 25months, trained and titled by pro. Planning this breeding since last fall, talking with trainer, Vet, and others in the game that have years of experiance... Fast forward.

Wednesday Feb 27 notice 1st blood, although my GSP fixed female had been sniffing around my lab for a few weeks so I knew to watch.
1st Progesterone done on Sat 3/2 at 10am. it read .3, cost was $78. Also had Brucellosis test, $73.
2nd test done on Monday 3/4 at 9am, it came back .4, cost $60
3rd test done on Thursday 3/7 at 9am, it came back 1.1, cost $60
Seeing a slight rise, and knowing the weekend coming, not able to test on weekend, and the stud dog 4.5 hours away.
4th test done on Friday 3/8 at 4:15pm, it came back 2.3. Now we're getting somewhere, I'm thinking.
Talk to stud owner, (not new at this) they recommend set up appointment at there local Repro for Monday am, and if needed, side by side is available. Called, made appt for 11:20. They have a 2-3 hour turn time on results. Perfect for me.
5th test done at breeder Vet on Monday 3/11 at 11:20, it comes back 22.1 Cost $137 includes new patient exam, smear, blood draw, Progesterone test, and waste fee.

By the time they called me (3pm) with the results, I'm with the breeder discussing dog stuff, so, Repro Vet recommends try to get 1st tie soon. Out we go to the Magic Carpet, I think she called it. :) Now my girl (an Alpha female) is a first timer at this, and so am I. The benefit to be involved with those who are veterans at this - Priceless. Breeder explains the process to me, but my girl is all about the birds, not so much about the birds and the bees. Takes 15 minutes before he connects, as she wouldn't lift her tail. This is where experiance comes in again. Tie lasted about 25 minutes.
A hand shake, and down the road I go, leaving her behind, (I hate that part). Breeder gets another tie yesterday, 3/12 at around 4pm. I'll go back to get her this Saturday.

Now, I have consulted several who know this business, including a University Repro dept. and am hopeful the results are on target. It has been said that after the 1.1 she may double that # daily, she did, then spiked over 3 days. It is also suggested that the spike may indicate a large number of eggs were released. (My female was born in a litter of 13, irrelavent?) We dicided she likely ovulated on Saturday, and think we hit the timing for the 1st tie at the optimum time, as sperm lives for several days in the female. I know many of the veterans and experts on RTF have some thoughts as to what the possibilities are, and we can all learn from hearing it. So tell me what you think I did right, did wrong, and how many black and yellows I should see around Mothers Day 2013. Both dogs are black - yellow factored, female may be tri-factored, waiting VetGen results on that.

If this post belongs somewhere else, I apologize.

Was the test done at the breeder's vet that was 22.1 in nanogram (ng) or Nanomoles (nml)? Always need to make sure when using different vet clinics and their respective labs that prog. testing is equivalent. (I believe it's 7 nanomoles equals 2 nanograms?)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Frontier, tests from both my local Vet and the Repro Vet in Michigan were done in ng. I did the same thing when the 22.1 came in, had them email me a copy of the report to verify. Good call though, as of the day she started her heat cycle, I didn't know about the possibility of 2 different measures. I learned that here, thanks RTF.
 

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Good luck on the litter and by the looks of it you did it all right in my mind, I went through a rough heat cycle and she didnt ovulate until day 19 and then we couldnt get a tie, second time though was good.

Good luck, who was the stud?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought I'd see more responses to this. Are there people out of town, not close to their computer? Still like to hear others feedback on this.
 

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JJaxon,

Looks good to me, with the exception of the early progesterone test that has already been discussed. The only other info I might add is to question Charles' statement that the eggs will mature in 48 hrs. after ovulation. My source says "Approximately three days".

I'm on my way to northern MN this weekend to breed my bitch Tess. I am not planning to do a progesterone test until Monday morning with will be the 11th day since she first showed blood and slight vulvar swelling. Does anyone think there is any value to testing sooner? I've got the weekend in the way too!

Swack
 

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Seeing a slight rise, and the stud dog 4.5 hours away.

So tell me what you think I did right, did wrong,
i am not an experienced breeder. in my HUMBLE opinion, you likely gave away a good saturday(this coming), 9 hours of driving(there and back) and 36 gallons of truck diesel at a cost of ~$150. if she is truely an alfa bitch and you got a twenty five minute tie and the stud and nobody else got bit......nature has spoken! go home and wait, one is enough!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
 
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