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Discussion Starter #1
All,

I am at an incredibly frustrating point in my retriever training career. The dog im working with is my first dog ive trained. (Ive worked with a HRC in the yard and duck blind so I know how a good one operates). The dog I have now is a family dog who I let spend her life not in a kennel. She can free roam around the house and yard and play with who she likes. So far we have accomplished the following: basic obedience, force fetch, collar conditioning, back, left right back, and over. She has run the T drill from a stationary position. Im moving into the traditional T drill and have run into a huge road block. When I try to cast the dog from my side she flat out refuses to do anything. Doesnt move at all. She puts her head into my leg and doesnt look forward. In fact, its like she knows what will happen as soon as she looks ahead so she refuses to do so. What advice can someone on this forum give for this situation?
 

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Put her in a front sit position and cast back. Did you do this in FTP?
Lardy has a fix for this. It is called avoidance. But I am not sure about your ability to carry it off. You can move closer.
Are you following a program or just freelancing?
What did you mean by T in stationary position?
 

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What program/progression are you following?
 

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It's not uncommon for a dog to get "buggy" and not look out and "no go"...

it's avoidance

it is actually something that you want to happen now rather than in the field.

if you have TRULY gone through the previous steps appropriately you have to find a way to convey to her that this is not a choice. She must go when sent..

it takes some fínese and timing

I am hesitant to try and describe it when I don't know the dog.

Needs to be shown to you.
 

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Black lab
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Discussion Starter #8
It's not uncommon for a dog to get "buggy" and not look out and "no go"...

it's avoidance

it is actually something that you want to happen now rather than in the field.

if you have TRULY gone through the previous steps appropriately you have to find a way to convey to her that this is not a choice. She must go when sent..

it takes some fínese and timing

I am hesitant to try and describe it when I don't know the dog.

Needs to be shown to you.
I have Lardy’s book but have done some out of it not in the same order. At this point FTP is complete, although not directly in Lardy’s order. She knows the commands. Just refuses to do them. I will have to reinforce forcing the line is what it seems
 

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Lardy has a reason for the his order. Skipping around leaves us in a tough position to give you advise. You should have worked in side sends as a part of FTP. So FTP is not complete. My advise is to start over practically and do things just exactly as Lardy states.
 

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I have Lardy’s book but have done some out of it not in the same order. At this point FTP is complete, although not directly in Lardy’s order. She knows the commands. Just refuses to do them. I will have to reinforce forcing the line is what it seems
There is your problem. Lardy’s program is built in microstep, you took a lunge and you skipped it out of order. No way your ftp is complete. You need to take a few steps back.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Lardy has a reason for the his order. Skipping around leaves us in a tough position to give you advise. You should have worked in side sends as a part of FTP. My advise is to start over practically and do things just exactly as Lardy states.
She has been taught side sends just like he said. Establishing the pile and forcing to it. She knows the command. Just refusing to do it now that all commands are coming together. This is an issue not related to the order of her teaching
 

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She was forced to pile when I taught her back. Started with fetch and started mixing in back. Finished with using back every time. Did this drill out to 100yards
Shes not forced. You just thought she was. Back to the pile. Then change locations, establish your line for double t, then re-force on that line. How do you handle the no go?
 

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When you know she is properly forced is when she is locked dead on that pile and will holeshot
out like a drag car on back command. If not, she is either not properly forced or bugging/avoidance on the side send. On bugging or No-go, step forward, “heel” with a nick and resend.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
When you know she is properly forced is when she is locked dead on that pile and will holeshot
out like a drag car on back command. If not, she is either not properly forced or bugging/avoidance on the side send. On bugging or No-go, step forward, “heel” with a nick and resend.
Thanks for the comment. She is properly forced because she has no problem fetching and bringing the object to hand. She is bugging big time. I tried to step forward trick but its not working. I will have to take some steps back I think
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Shes not forced. You just thought she was. Back to the pile. Then change locations, establish your line for double t, then re-force on that line. How do you handle the no go?
I have established the line. This was my first step after collar conditioning. Started with simple fetch then extended the pile and transitioned from fetch to back. She had no issues during this step. From there I moved on to left/right back and over. Her issue now is she wont cast from the side. While establishing the line on no go I started putting a bucket behind the back pile. This helped her build confidence
 

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Thanks for the comment. She is properly forced because she has no problem fetching and bringing the object to hand. She is bugging big time. I tried to step forward trick but its not working. I will have to take some steps back I think
Just because she goes and picks it up and comes back, that doesnt mean she is forced. Teach the line, then remote stick force, collar force, and force enroute. Dont force on side send or it will create a hotspot and she will start flaring on the holeshot. She should launch out fast and stay fast all the way to the pile, stay on line with no flaring, get to the pile and pick a bumper quickly without shopping and return quickly back to heel. If you give a heel nick and still no go or bug, move closer to the pile.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just because she goes and picks it up and comes back, that doesnt mean she is forced. Teach the line, then remote stick force, collar force, and force enroute. Dont force on side send or it will create a hotspot and she will start flaring on the holeshot. She should launch out fast and stay fast all the way to the pile, stay on line with no flaring, get to the pile and pick a bumper quickly without shopping and return quickly back to heel. If you give a heel nick and still no go or bug, move closer to the pile.
She has accomplished all of these things. I will try moving closer to the pile for a couple sessions. Thanks for your help
 
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