[RailRoadRetrievers]

Is it possible for a two year old pup to just say "screw it" to retrieving?

I have one that appears to have said eff this junk. The pup is out of two QAA dogs, both of which are extremely well bred. This pup was washed by a pro because she didn't fit hte program after she went through all of her yard and table work. She is spot on with obedience. She just doesn't want anything to do with bumpers or ducks or retrieving. She is high energy and really a sweet all around pup.

I have thought about putting her on some live birds or possibly taking her out with another pup to see if fun retrieves for him makes her jealous. Trying to think of anything to get the motor running and her excitement back up.

Thoughts?

 

[labsforme]

Need more information.How long have you had her? What Pro? What level was she trained to? PM me.I have been through something similar.

 

[Col Blimp]

Is it possible for a two year old pup to just say "screw it" to retrieving?

From what you say, yes.

Thoughts? Well we can have all sorts of thoughts, but without having more of the background and seeing you and Pup together it's virtually impossible to make any judgement.

So its blue sky thinking ...... a well bred fit and healthy dog that came from solid working Mom and Pop that doesn't now want to retrieve? Somewhere along the line Pup has been buggered up.

You can accept the fact that a dog isn't an absolute fireball, even a bit of a plodder (which BTW have their place) but not interested? More likely IMO that she's been over faced in some part of the training profile and been beaten up for it instead of being encouraged.

Advice? Jeez, I don't know you or the wee girl, but for starters I'd back off training for six weeks and have a lot of fun walking, swimming, playing games, and just lightening up. I live by the sea and find just a run along the beach and roll in the surf can buck a dog up no end. I've even walked them up in the mountains and chucked sandwiches into the undergrowth!

At that six week point and not before, assess what you now think you've got ... let her chase a rabbit or pigeon? Shoot one, and just sit down with a cup of coffee and let her know she isn't under the cosh?

Any extra details and maybe even a video would help folks form some sort of opinion that's more valid than mine!

Anyway, best of luck.

eug

 

[PhilBernardi]

Good thing I don't walk with the Col 'cause I'd be stuck in the undergrowth. :mrgreen:

 

[Col Blimp]

Good thing I don't walk with the Col 'cause I'd be stuck in the undergrowth.

Nah, I make 'orribule sandwiches!

Eug

 

[Pat Puwal]

Depending on whether or not she is spayed, it could be hormones. Trained with a 6 yr. old Lab female yesterday that was having a false pregnancy and not wanting to do anything. Owner tearing her hair out. Dog has NAHRA and UKC master titles.
Could be too much pressure and you may be able to sweeten her up with live birds, but if it is too much pressure it will take time.

 

[Archery1973]

I'm interested in answers to this question.

My question - why has she not ever been exposed to live birds? I'm curious as to what people experiences are with live birds and jump starting desire.....

 

[RailRoadRetrievers]

Live birds give them a real boost, I had a female previously who like to retrieve but only because it was what I wanted, introduced clipped wing pigeons and she became a bird crazed woman. I got the idea from Sharon Potter I believe who posts on here, for more drastic measures her and Angie had another step

 

[Micah Duffy]

Sometimes when they dont fit "the program" they end up with a little to much e-collar and get a negative association with bumpers from force fetch or line work. Check into another pro for some help. Live birds will help for sure as well with most dogs. Good luck.

 

[gdgnyc]

Did you acquire this dog as a pup and then send it to a pro? Or did you get this dog after it washed out? Did the pro tell you in what way the dog does not fit the program?

 

[RailRoadRetrievers]

Got her post washing....

 

[RetrieversONLINE]

Perhaps if more trainers tried to make "the Program fit the Dog" rather than "the Dog fit the Program", there would be fewer stories like yours.

There are reasons to wash out a dog for a particular activity such as field trials but not fitting the program is most often a lousy one. Low desire, poor eyes, few smarts, health issues, are bona fide natural ability reasons. A lot of other reasons can be lumped under response to poor training as opposed to poor response to training.

I do not know which reasons are most valid for your dog.

 

[gdgnyc]

Perhaps if more trainers tried to make "the Program fit the Dog" rather than "the Dog fit the Program", there would be fewer stories like yours.

There are reasons to wash out a dog for a particular activity such as field trials but not fitting the program is most often a lousy one. Low desire, poor eyes, few smarts, health issues, are bona fide natural ability reasons. A lot of other reasons can be lumped under response to poor training as opposed to poor response to training.

I do not know which reasons are most valid for your dog.

Exactly my thoughts on this one.

 

[gdgnyc]

I think that in former times, it might have been suggested that you pull the feathers from a bird, let the dog chase it, catch it, and eat it. This is assuming that you have tried teasing and playing. Also, good idea to stop any retrieving session with the dog "wanting one more".

 

[Col Blimp]

RRR

If she was washed out by a professional using the "standard" Rex Carr based e-collar system then it seems unlikely that more of the same is going to get you anywhere, at least in the short or mid term.

Given that you have many other dogs and a small breeding business to run, you need to think about this one. Just what are your hopes and aims with her? Re-sale as a trained dog, keep her as a brood bitch, develop her as a shooting companion? My experience in remediation training suggests that in her case their isn't likely to be any fix that is quick or easy. The brute fact is that there may not even be a fix.

I'm not going to lay out any rules and regulations as to how you might proceed, but I'll tell you what I would do in similar circumstances.

1) Figure out just how much time and effort this dog is worth to me as opposed to letting her go as a pet. Am I better off making a small loss now as opposed to a larger one in six months?

2) If I decide to persist, I'll set a time limit. The heads and brick walls rule will apply!

3) All pressure based training is going to be cut out and discarded; I need to get this dog on my side, and liking me. I also need to get to like her, which isn't always as easy as it sounds.

4) First training step .... Six weeks of R and R down by Ray Roberts Lake shore, just playing and swimming and messing about., preferably with the other dogs if it won't interfere with their training profile.

5) Taking Dennis's point, I need to find out just what I've got, I need to determine this dogs attitude to training, any sort of training. So I'll teach her a few daft tricks that if they don't work out won't affect anything more serious; "shake hands", "salute the flag", "play dead". And then (really crafty) fetch the newspaper; it ain't a bird, it ain't a bumper, and there's no pressure, and nothing went bang. If you have only ever used coercive training methods you'll need to put another hat on and learn something else.

6) If I've done OK up to this point, I'd to take her into a rabbit pen and see what happens; judge her instincts on something she hasn't seen before but is very attractive.

7) If she wanted the rabbit or even better, put in a good chase, I'd shoot one and sit down to wait. And that would be the tipping point, if she made an attempt at a retrieve or showed interest I'd know I've got something to work with. If not, it's a pet placement with no breeding from her. Even if it didn't work out I have learnt something along the way.

Like I said it's not a formula for you to slavishly follow but it's a similar approach to what I've done in the past; the basic idea is to get the dog and me relaxed with each other and then do an assessment of retrieving potential in a stress free environment. That's the best I can do from 6,000 miles away, if it suits you then I'm pleased, if it doesn't my wrists remain unslashed!

Anyway, best of luck,

Eug

 

[Kendall Steffensen]

I don't have the experience to offer any advice, but I am interested if others members have any additional thoughts.

Thanks,
Kendall

 

[RailRoadRetrievers]

Riddle Me This, Riddle Me That.....

I have been taking a really lax approach to my female, no formal training just playing around the yard, she gives chase to every bumper when the guys are out, but is never the first one there and just chasing them......

Yesterday I took her to the lake, got her out, just to see if I could spark a little something in her. I knew that if she decided retrieving wasn't happening that I had one that would scoop them up for me.

So I tossed one in the water a few feet, she took off like a bat out of hell and brought it back to me and delivered to hand, tossed another, then another, extending her distance to about 40 yards in the water. Each time delivering it back to hand. Did a couple on the land then put her up wanting more. Did maybe six retrieves total.....

Today, in the yard, same crap, throw the bumper, even she cares she will chase it down and then maybe bring it back but changes her mind or doesn't even bother chasing it.

 

[rbr]

You could force her to do it but working with a dog that doesn't want to work makes for a miserable dog and a miserable trainer.

Has she ever been on a hunt or witnessed a shot wild bird?

Bert

 

[EJ]

Tom Quinn writes about this in his Working Retrivers book. I won't try to replicate what he said here but will paraphrase to say. It happens. Doesn't mean it's forever. Maybe give the pup a few months off and go back to some basics to build up a desire.

 

[frontier]

Riddle Me This, Riddle Me That.....

I have been taking a really lax approach to my female, no formal training just playing around the yard, she gives chase to every bumper when the guys are out, but is never the first one there and just chasing them......

Yesterday I took her to the lake, got her out, just to see if I could spark a little something in her. I knew that if she decided retrieving wasn't happening that I had one that would scoop them up for me.

So I tossed one in the water a few feet, she took off like a bat out of hell and brought it back to me and delivered to hand, tossed another, then another, extending her distance to about 40 yards in the water. Each time delivering it back to hand. Did a couple on the land then put her up wanting more. Did maybe six retrieves total.....

Today, in the yard, same crap, throw the bumper, even she cares she will chase it down and then maybe bring it back but changes her mind or doesn't even bother chasing it.

Stop working her in the backyard. You are reinforcing bad habits.
She showed you that she is more responsive, motivated, and willing to work in a new environment away from your backyard. Keep working her away from your backyard until old patterns are modified. Not one week, not one month, but months... When you purchase a "wash out" you have to be prepared for the possibility of some "ghosts in the closet"...