[Chris Atkinson]

Part of me thinks it is sometimes wrong for managers to ask those with whom they work for advice on what decision to be made. Other times, I think it makes perfect sense to get input from those who interact within the system on a daily basis.

I'm asking those of you who care, to click a button or share a comment.

In the Classifieds, I've intentionally NOT made any rigid posting rules around the sale of puppies. What I'm considering, is whether or not we need to specify HOW a puppy ad is constructed, like some of the other sites - loaded with puppy ads - require.

Specifically, do you think that we NEED to require OFA and CERF to be included in an ad for puppies that are for sale? OR - do you think that we can rely upon our self-policing nature here to do what's ethical and right without a rule telling us to?

 

[Kristie Wilder]

There's no reason not to require it. If people are breeding ethically, they'll have the numbers to put in there. If not...

The only catch is (and I ran into this on rg.com) is that you then have to deal with the handful of people who are upset by these requirements. So be it. But it can be a great opportunity for education. When I finally get my site back up, I'm going to have a "why" section that people can click on to see why they're required. Might not be a bad idea....

-Kristie

 

[subroc]

I am not a breeder so what do I care and as the saying goes let the buyer beware but??.

I think a simple format could/should be required for puppy ads. It could contain spaces for all the basic information plus a space for additional info that could contain breeding philosophy, description of parents, shots etc.. While not requiring that all spaces be filled in, using a required format would make the omission of information glaring.

I voted, left as is.

Joe

 

[Ken Newcomb]

The people on this board should know how to pick a pup.

Thus, the addition of rules that you have to police is just one more thing that makes this board no fun for you.

Also, would you require a yearly CERF or is one time OK? I do not breed but I do know that the closest place for me to get a CERF clearance is in Manhattan, KS. That is 6 good hours for me. Call me unethical but it just isn't going to happen every year.

I voted to leave it alone.

 

[Franco]

poll

OFA should most definitly be included. It would be the responsible thing to do! Folks, got to tell ya that if you and your dogs are not part of the solution, than you are part of the problem. CERF is different. If a dog can mark at 350 yards, then as far as I'm concerned the eyes are fine. Hips are a different story. I know that someone is probably going to say, "Are we breeding hips or are we breeding for ability". If you are breeding, than you need to breed for both as well as type.

 

[Polock]

Leave as is Chris.
I'm sure those that are pursuing puppies will do additional research with the breeder or ask for opinions right here on the RTF.
I'm also sure if questional ads for puppies show up on the board, Someone from this board will STRONGLY OFFER THEIR OPINION as to why they posted here.

Use KISS flatlander, make it simple on yourself!

Nazdrowie................ :drinking:

 

[Ted Shih]

I personally prefer that you impose a requirement of OFA and CERF information for breedings. Although some tout Penn Hip as more accurate, I can only say from my personal experience that I have not been pleased with the evaluations I have gotten when I have had them performed (not so much results as inept vets)

As for CERF, when I had Zowie done, I was told that - for Labs - annual testing was NOT necessary. Thus, I would simply ask for CERF number.

Although Buyer Beware is a common phrase in our society, I do not think it should apply here - at least as to basic information such as OFA and CERF

Note that I am not saying that someone breeding OFA Poor should be precluded from advertising - although maybe that should be considered - rather that OFA information must be posted when advertising

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

I don't see a problem with things the way they are. I think someone should be able to post... "I bred my Harley bitch to Maxx... lemme know if you want a pup." I would hope a prospective buyer would ask many many questions, but I think we would get into a logistics issue of monitoring the ads. Should the OFA number include the rating... look at all the old Willie ads, you don't see the "F" in there, just the number and age.

Shayne - Thinkin we should worry about this if and when it becomes a problem.

 

[Franco]

OFA

Shayne, are we going to lead are we just gonna get out of the way? :twisted: Most new Lab owners don't know what questions to ask!

 

[Vicky Trainor]

Yes, I am sure that there would be "policing" of the ads by members of this forum.

However, what's the big deal about posting the OFA & CERF info up front in the pup ads? A little more typing, but not so much that it's a pain. Most breeders that would post an ad probably already have all of that information right at hand.

Regarding CERF: I have CERF exams done annually but, until recently, I didn't send the copy of the results to CERF for a number. I could show anyone that inquired the copy of each year's examination. Now that so many people want to see that CERF number on the paperwork, I send in for a CERF #.

Someone said that if a dog could mark at 350 yds the eyes were fine to them. I have a dog that is a wonderful marker, loves to retrieve and is a very pretty girl However, if I had not done CERF exam, I would never have known that she has cataracts and should not be bred. It's a real sore spot for me.....not so much that she has cataracts (cause I love her no matter what), but because the breeder (a VERY well known retriever person) has not lived up to their end of the hip/eye guarantee I've been trying to get this settled for almost 2 years now!! ( I learned that another littermate also has cataracts)

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Re: OFA

Shayne, are we going to lead are we just gonna get out of the way? :twisted: Most new Lab owners don't know what questions to ask!

I agree that ALL ads SHOULD have that info, but should we delete the ad if it doesn't, nah... cuz then we gotta make sure we delete EVERY ad that doesn't cover all requirements. What if they say "If bred my Harley bitch OFA12345678E26 CERF123456 to Ford." Are we going to delete that because they didn't post Ford's numbers? I'm not.

Instead of removing the ads, i would encourage everyone that reads an ad missing the necessary/ethical information, to simply post a reply asking about OFA and CERF.

Shayne

 

[Vicky Trainor]

Good idea Shayne.......Now I know why they have you as the "Fancy Moderator" hehehehe

 

[TommyB]

anyone who is looking for a dog and comes here should know what they are looking for and what questions to ask the breeder about the parents. you can tell right away is they are worth dealing with. JMHO

Tommy

 

[Franco]

CERF

Ms Trainor, would you please post the name of the breeder that won't live up to their guarentee. And, hope that you have resolved your turtle problem!

 

[Vicky Trainor]

Booty......I don't believe I can post that publicly without causing problems for the Forum.

However, if you want to email me privately I would be happy to tell you the breeder and the parents of my $1200.00 pup.


PS--Still working on the turtle problem. Guess he doesn't like chicken necks or I'm doing something wrong I'll get that sucker yet

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Booty......I don't believe I can post that publicly without causing problems for the Forum.

However, if you want to email me privately I would be happy to tell you the breeder and the parents of my $1200.00 pup.

Vicky, if there are two sides to the story... privately is the way to go. Thanks.

Shayne - Thinkin idda done thrown them under the bus to the whole world if it was me. Glad Vicky is more mature.

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Note,

Based upon the comments received thus far, I've changed the wording in the classified section to "Ad guidelines" and have put some text in there strongly suggesting OFA, CERF, PennHip - "standard health clearances".

Here's what it says now: This ad section is for retriever training related items for sale, or for wanted ads for such items. This is NOT for chain e-mail, spam, or other internet clutter.

For puppy ads, you might as well post up the standard health clearances with numbers (OFA, CERF, PennHip). Ads without this info will likely draw requests for the info anyhow.


This is for the benefit of retriever trainers. Thank you for your cooperation and for making RTF a value to retriever enthusiasts around the world.

I'm impressed with how split the vote is thus far!

- Chris

 

[Ken Newcomb]

Just out of curiousity, if you have a written garauntee, why would you fight with someone for 2 yrs? Get a court judgement and be done with it.

 

[Peake]

Chris,
FWIW I think you will find OFA/CERF or not in the case of all longtime posters they will continue to honor your wishes/guidelines as they previously stood in RTF of old?
Peake
________
Bondage Rope

 

[Vicky Trainor]

Ken,

I had a lot of respect for the breeder. Have known them for 12+ years. I had hoped that they would do the right thing without bringing more expense into the situation for lawyers, court fees, etc.