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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok first off I'm not complaining because we failed! I would have failed her on the water blind alone(it was ugly)..but this is what I was told by the judge later when I ran into him in the parking area and asked him how he scored her on the test. He told me she failed by 1/4 of a point. He also told me he did not score dogs 0-10 he uses 2-8. Said he nevers gives a 9 or 10. So he shows me the sheet and on her land series he gave her a 7 on the live flyer mark. She went straight to it! He said because it landed in the short grass and was visable he could only give her a 7! Anyone ever heard of or go along with this type of judging? Just curious. This was a SH test.
 

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No comment on your test or your score.

If the AKC didn't want the dog to score 0, 1, 9, or 10, they would have made the scale 2-8 rather than 0-10.

If a flyer landing in short grass can only rate a max of 7, does a flyer in tall grass, briars, etc. warrant a max of 12? If the bird fell in an area that the judge didn't want it, I'd think a no-bird should be called.

The rule book gives guidelines for relative area of fall. For example, a go bird AOF should be relatively smaller than the AOF of a memory bird. I see no reason to limit a score t0 a max of less than 10 for any reason. I don't judge HTs. If I did, a dog that goes directly to a mark would get a 10 from me on that bird.
 

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You are probably really new to the game. There is always more to the story then what the handler percieves. No one she be able to give you an answer without actually seeing the dogs performance.
 

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You are probably really new to the game. There is always more to the story then what the handler percieves. No one she be able to give you an answer without actually seeing the dogs performance.
But they could tell the OP whether they have "ever heard of or go along with this type of judging", i.e. limiting a score for a mark based on where the bird falls (Not saying that this is what happened to the OP).

Also, do you not give a zero if the dog fails to return whith the bird? A 2-8 scale does not allow for a zero (again not saying this actually happened in the case of the OP).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are probably really new to the game. There is always more to the story then what the handler percieves. No one she be able to give you an answer without actually seeing the dogs performance.
Nope not new, just never heard of a judging like that. And not mispercieved,he showed me the score sheet. Like I said she had an ugly water blind that I would have thrown her out for but that's not what he said got me it was overall score and the flyer mark was about as straight a line as you could draw( I have a series of pics that show her going and coming to that mark but the judges are in it and I won't do that) The other land mark she had a little bit of a hunt as well as almost every dog. The two water marks were out and back. He scored a 6 on the ugly blind so I have no idea how she was below 7 overall. We'll go next weekend and run'm again and see what happens.
 

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But they could tell the OP whether they have "ever heard of or go along with this type of judging", i.e. limiting a score for a mark based on where the bird falls (Not saying that this is what happened to the OP).

Also, do you not give a zero if the dog fails to return whith the bird? A 2-8 scale does not allow for a zero (again not saying this actually happened in the case of the OP).

This thread is for sure going get some mileage.

I won't speak to the why's or scoring of said dog. Or the way said judge judges.

I do have a short story about AKC hunt tests though.

I judged at the Buckeye Retriever Clubs first AKC hunt test. When the test was over and the judges received a calculator for a judges gift I said it was a SAD day when we needed a calculator to determine if our dogs were worthy of hunting with us..

I still believe that to be true. We can make up any number, in any area, of evaluating our "hunting" dogs we want to.

At the end of the day (IMHO) the question is : Would I want to hunt with this dog??? If yes=Pass, If no =Fail.

That whole matrix of Trainability, nose, perseverance yada, yada, yada, is a feeble attempt to take the "judging" out of it. Which we know can't be done.

Yes there is a standard, major faults, minor etc. It just doesn't need to be that complicated. The OP said didn't pass by a 1/4 point (peanut font) Give me a #$%^& break!! Pass or fail.

P.S. I left the hunt test game soon after and went the field trial route. Much happier and WAY LESS whiners.

P.S.S. Yes some adult beverages where involved in this post. Flame on.
 

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I would write the judge's name in your little memo book and avoid him in the future.

We all have little tricks and habits of scoring notation. However, using a range of 2-8 when the book says 0-10 means that judge isn't complying with the regulations. I guess you can take comfort in the score of 7 out of 8 as that is about a 9 in anyone else's book.

Eric
 

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Labmann 63,, my post is NOT a shot at you or anybody else. Just my thoughts or lack of.

Regards
 

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I'm scratching my head on the 2-8 thing. Dog that turns around when the marks go off and pees on the judges leg, then runs back to truck and jumps in gets 2? It's a pass or fail exam don't fret the numbers.
 

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I have never heard of a 2-8 scale and if your dog had an ugly water blind and it got a 6 what did all the other dogs do on the water blind? I was in a HT this last fall and the water blind was a bit of a ruff one. there were 21 dogs that started and 5 of us passed - I was able to get the dog out to the bird in 4 casts on a 60 yd blind that the line was 6 to 10 ft from the shoreline and about half of the time the dogs could walk - she did go up on land but I was able to cast her back into the water - later on the judge said he had to really work the calculator and pencil to see if she could make it. My point is sometimes the judges and pencils are working for you and sometimes they are not.

But I have also thanked the judges and left before call backs due to my dogs dissappointing performance in my own mind, but if your dog pinned a bird there should be a higher score than a 7 if he/she only goes up to 8 then you should have had an 8 the dog did what it was supposed to do, and I feel sorry for that judges dogs - because i am sure he/she is never satisfied with their performance either
 

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My amplifier is louder because it goes to 11!!!!

This discussion reminds me of the movie spinal tap.

0-10 is the scale......

Kevin
 

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A judge that makes up his/her own standards or grade scale is not judging by the rules and regs. Best to try to avoid those folks in the future.
And right about the calculator thing. I use my numbers as a guide to help me remember the dogs' work. At the end of the day/weekend it's only a question of whether or not the dog showed us the work expected at that level.
 

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Some people can't help but insert their own ego driven agendas. I would definately put that one on my list.

It cuts both ways though. I recall a test in VA a few years ago where the judge proudly proclaimed that he intended to pass every dog. True to his word he ran a ridiculously dumbed down MH test and the only dogs that didn't pass were ones that broke on the flyer.
I went away feeling like the ribbon wasn't earned and the 150mile drive and hotel expense wasn't worth it.

This judge was honestly proud that he helped SH level dogs get MH ribbons.

Bert
 

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When the test was over and the judges received a calculator for a judges gift I said it was a SAD day when we needed a calculator to determine if our dogs were worthy of hunting with us..
Hunting tests were created to show worthiness of hunting dogs that could be achieved by the Amateur, and not to show pinpoint marking. Even in field trials, a dog does not need to be graded on each mark to be a pinpoint marker. This is micromanaging a test. A dog that goes straight to a mark can't get a 10 because of the cover? Ridiculous. This mentality is ruining it for the amateur and pushing the game even further into being a pro game.
 

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I suspect that someone heard this advice in a seminar. Last one I went to that's what we were told- a perfect mark only scores and 8. Really!? Needless to say I totally disagree.
 

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I suspect that someone heard this advice in a seminar. Last one I went to that's what we were told- a perfect mark only scores and 8. Really!? Needless to say I totally disagree.
Or he was the one giving the seminar(even worse)

Bert
 

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Hunting tests were created to show worthiness of hunting dogs that could be achieved by the Amateur, and not to show pinpoint marking. Even in field trials, a dog does not need to be graded on each mark to be a pinpoint marker. This is micromanaging a test. A dog that goes straight to a mark can't get a 10 because of the cover? Ridiculous. This mentality is ruining it for the amateur and pushing the game even further into being a pro game.
There has to be some sort of quantative system and the rules clearly state it.
But if a dog watches a set of marks and steps on each one, how is it possable that he only gets 8s. That is total BS.

Bert
 

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I suspect that someone heard this advice in a seminar. Last one I went to that's what we were told- a perfect mark only scores and 8. Really!? Needless to say I totally disagree.
I thought that perhaps the judge was just pulling labman's leg. After reading the above I think that there is a developing problem.
 

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Looks like a call to the Hunt Secretary might be in order. I'm pretty sure that a few suggestive comments, like, if this cat judges again, I won't be back. I have friends that avoid tests due to a certain few judges and its a short list. All it takes is letting the host know of the problem and maybe they might take notice. I am not all all suggesting calling and whining about an unfair blind, etc. Just on this type of scenerio. Capitalistic marketing can work here too.
 
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