RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,519 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DrunkenPoacher posted this photo of the Amateur 4th series at the Kansas City Retriever Club. Birds were thrown in this Order: Middle, Left, Right. All dead birds, all ducks. If the mat were at the center of the clock, the wind was blowing from 7 to 2 o'clock. The Middle Bird was the longest of the three birds - maybe 75 yards longer than Left Bird. The Middle Bird was maybe 50 yards deeper than the Right Bird. Which order do you want to pick up the birds and why?

Cloud Sky Plant Natural landscape Tree
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,519 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry. Both Left and Middle guns retired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
I think you may have a better shot at staying in the water and on the correct side of the left gun if you clear the middle bird second. Wouldn’t want to be too disciplined on the middle bird and have them thinking too much water and gut hunt that hillside. I think the left bird is the discipline bird.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,527 Posts
Middle and left were retired.
I thought the left mark was the longest but no matter. If my dog had watched the middle bird like he should have I would probably have sent him to the left mark second. However, if he returned from the go bird and really locked in on the middle bird I would have gladly let him have it. Similar scenarios have played out well for us in the past.
 
  • Like
Reactions: swampcollielover

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,565 Posts
I think you may have a better shot at staying in the water and on the correct side of the left gun if you clear the middle bird second. Wouldn’t want to be too disciplined on the middle bird and have them thinking too much water and gut hunt that hillside. I think the left bird is the discipline bird.
if the wind is blowing from 7 to 2 --- I probably would try for middle bird second also.
I figured the left and middle would be retired, but wanted to clarify that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,519 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think you may have a better shot at staying in the water and on the correct side of the left gun if you clear the middle bird second.
if the wind is blowing from 7 to 2 --- I probably would try for middle bird second also.
I figured the left and middle would be retired, but wanted to clarify that.
To both of you: Why?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,982 Posts
Right - Left - Middle
IMHO going for the middle bird 2nd has a greater potential for problems:
1) my dogs tend to "push off" previous birds/guns 2) in trying to select they might tend to take too much water if I try for the middle and 3) the left bird is still their head. These 3 factors would probably cause them to end up splitting the distance between the left and middle, ending up in "nowhere land". By going left 2nd the wind can help if they drift left on #2 as they exit the water.
Finally with the boundaries to the right and left are now set and picking up the middle bird becomes straight forward. just aim between those 2 trees

Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
For me, as a newbie, I would think I would pick up right, left, middle. Unless dogs were having trouble picking it up this way, then I would do something else.

My reasoning would be:

1) I typically train to pick up the next shortest bird, so that would be the left bird.

2) I think I would also like to get that bird out the way for the 7-2 wind. However I don’t think the wind would be an issue for that bird either way.

3) save the long punch bird for the last bird

But again, I would watch dogs and see if that still seems like the best plan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,667 Posts
Right, left, middle.
Would not want to take the chance that the dog winds the left bird while hunting the middle bird.
This test looks to be well constructed and quite difficult, to my eye. How did the dogs that attempted it do? - Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,519 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There were three schools of thought:
1) Take left retired second;
2) Take middle retired second;
3) Let the dog decide.

Dave Furin and I sat in a Kubota and debated about selection. Dave Furin favored #1. I favored #2.

Dave thought:
1) Left was shorter.
2) The Middle and Left Birds were tighter than the photo shows and he wanted to let the area "cool off."
3) Outside/Outside was the way to go.

I thought that:
1) The Middle Bird would be the hardest to get, because:
a) The Right bird would create push to the left
b) The Land bridge would create push to the left
c) The Left retired was a pretty well defined picture for the dog.

I heard someone talk about letting the dog decide, but I can't remember who that was.

Most people elected to go Left first. I think there were 12 back and 10 chose Left first.
I know Bill Burks went Middle first and I did, too.

I went Middle first for the reasons set forth above and because I wanted to pull my dog hard into the land bridge, while the right bird was fresh in his mind (unlike Dave, I wanted that area hot), trusting that my dog would take the pull and would not return to the old fall. Also, by the time I ran, it was pretty clear that the middle bird was the one causing the dogs trouble, so I wanted to deal with the bird while my dog's memory was the freshest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,565 Posts
To both of you: Why?
For my dog - she is likely to remember the first bird down better than she would the second bird down. I also feel like she would pull slightly right with the wind and more likely end up on the correct side of the long gun.
If we pick up the left bird last and she has a hunt, it will most likely be such that she will wind the bird at some point in her hunt unless she ended up in no man's land to the outside of the mark. I'd probably encourage a fat entry and hope she'd line to the bush where the retired guns are and make the decision to go left, rather than right of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,527 Posts
I also feel like she would pull slightly right with the wind and more likely end up on the correct side of the long gun.
More than one of us that ran were hoping for that. There was a significant push to the left from the go bird and the terrain, more than I expected.
Dr. Bruce ran last and I watched in the holding blind with Lily, the buy dog. The Dr.'s dog went left of the middle bird but he was able to telepathically handle to the mark.:cool:

I'll be speaking with one of the judges soon. I want to ask him if the test gave him expected or unexpected answers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,565 Posts
More than one of us that ran were hoping for that. There was a significant push to the left from the go bird and the terrain, more than I expected.
Dr. Bruce ran last and I watched in the holding blind with Lily, the buy dog. The Dr.'s dog went left of the middle bird but he was able to telepathically handle to the mark.:cool:

I'll be speaking with one of the judges soon. I want to ask him if the test gave him expected or unexpected answers.
from the photo, it is hard to see how the terrain really lays. Do you think picking up that bird last also influenced dogs in that direction? If picked up second, perhaps the memory of the right hand mark would influence the dog a little more right also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,565 Posts
To clarify.... most people chose to pick up the middle mark last? Even though dogs struggled with that order? Were dogs choosing the middle bird themselves or were the handlers choosing for them? Was there success for any dogs that chose to pick up the middle bird second, or was the outcome the same?
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top