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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DrunkenPoacher posted this photo of the Amateur 4th series at the Kansas City Retriever Club. Birds were thrown in this Order: Middle, Left, Right. All dead birds, all ducks. If the mat were at the center of the clock, the wind was blowing from 7 to 2 o'clock. The Middle Bird was the longest of the three birds - maybe 75 yards longer than Left Bird. The Middle Bird was maybe 50 yards deeper than the Right Bird. Which order do you want to pick up the birds and why?

Cloud Sky Plant Natural landscape Tree
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry. Both Left and Middle guns retired.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think you may have a better shot at staying in the water and on the correct side of the left gun if you clear the middle bird second.
if the wind is blowing from 7 to 2 --- I probably would try for middle bird second also.
I figured the left and middle would be retired, but wanted to clarify that.
To both of you: Why?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There were three schools of thought:
1) Take left retired second;
2) Take middle retired second;
3) Let the dog decide.

Dave Furin and I sat in a Kubota and debated about selection. Dave Furin favored #1. I favored #2.

Dave thought:
1) Left was shorter.
2) The Middle and Left Birds were tighter than the photo shows and he wanted to let the area "cool off."
3) Outside/Outside was the way to go.

I thought that:
1) The Middle Bird would be the hardest to get, because:
a) The Right bird would create push to the left
b) The Land bridge would create push to the left
c) The Left retired was a pretty well defined picture for the dog.

I heard someone talk about letting the dog decide, but I can't remember who that was.

Most people elected to go Left first. I think there were 12 back and 10 chose Left first.
I know Bill Burks went Middle first and I did, too.

I went Middle first for the reasons set forth above and because I wanted to pull my dog hard into the land bridge, while the right bird was fresh in his mind (unlike Dave, I wanted that area hot), trusting that my dog would take the pull and would not return to the old fall. Also, by the time I ran, it was pretty clear that the middle bird was the one causing the dogs trouble, so I wanted to deal with the bird while my dog's memory was the freshest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
from the photo, it is hard to see how the terrain really lays. Do you think picking up that bird last also influenced dogs in that direction? If picked up second, perhaps the memory of the right hand mark would influence the dog a little more right also.
I thought that the true line to the middle bird involved no water and was on the left edge of the dark green hump at the end of the land bridge. It was a very hard line to get. For an All Age Dog, I would expect push not suction from the right hand go bird - if you went there second. I would expect less push if you went there third. I thought from the beginning that the middle bird was the money bird
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
To clarify.... most people chose to pick up the middle mark last? Even though dogs struggled with that order? Were dogs choosing the middle bird themselves or were the handlers choosing for them? Was there success for any dogs that chose to pick up the middle bird second, or was the outcome the same?
Bill Burks went middle second. I went middle second. I think we were the only ones out of 12 to go middle second. Bruce Ahlers said that he wanted to go middle second, but his dog wanted left second.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Were dogs choosing the middle bird themselves or were the handlers choosing for them?
That brings up another selection question. When do you let the dog decide?
 
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I believe that it is my job to choose the next bird and to persuade the dog that the bird I want is the bird he wants.
 
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