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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought I would try and generate some training dialogue because I don't much care about Marvin's opinion on Lean Mac.

So, when training for Field Trials and you are working on Short Retireds, how do you like to help/teach the dog?

We want dogs comfortable going into a short retired. So do you handle? Or just get gunner help to keep the dog in the area? Or does it depend on the "crime"?

I will give two scenarios to opine on:

Scenario 1 - A dog is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog comes in looking...and hunts in the AOF for a few seconds...then the hunt gets bigger...and a little bigger...and the dog starts to push deep and towards a standout gunner...

Scenario 2- A dog is is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog takes a nice line but just blows past the AOF and keeps on running (but not towards another gun and he is not influenced by another gun).
 

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I thought I would try and generate some training dialogue because I don't much care about Marvin's opinion on Lean Mac.

So, when training for Field Trials and you are working on Short Retireds, how do you like to help/teach the dog?

We want dogs comfortable going into a short retired. So do you handle? Or just get gunner help to keep the dog in the area? Or does it depend on the "crime"?

I will give two scenarios to opine on:

Scenario 1 - A dog is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog comes in looking...and hunts in the AOF for a few seconds...then the hunt gets bigger...and a little bigger...and the dog starts to push deep and towards a standout gunner...

Scenario 2- A dog is is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog takes a nice line but just blows past the AOF and keeps on running (but not towards another gun and he is not influenced by another gun).
Scenario 1 - if teaching an inexperienced dog, I would use gun help before the dog had gotten out of the acceptable hunt area. If the dog has had significant training on this, I would let it get clear of the hunt area, then use indirect pressure, have the gun come out and handle to the bird.
Scenario 2 - Gun help. the dog does not indicate it had a mark at all.
 

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I agree with Paul, gun help in both scenarios most of the time. The help should be minimal, just enough to keep the dog in the AOF.
Dirt clod drills may also be helpful.
 

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Clodding is a very good technique to use in scenario one with an experienced dog.
The boat bumper variation would also be helpful.
Big white boat bumper with a long line attached thrown as the short retired. Dog should be able to see it on the ground from the line and keep him focused on it for maybe a 10 count before calling for the next mark. Bumper is reeled in when the dog is sent on the go bird.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I remember in “TRT Marking”, I think Lardy handles and corrects a dog for leaving the AOF of a short retired to go to a long gun.
But generally he says “never” correct on a short retired.
 

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I remember in “TRT Marking”, I think Lardy handles and corrects a dog for leaving the AOF of a short retired to go to a long gun.
But generally he says “never” correct on a short retired.
I need to watch it again. I think the correction there is for switching.
 
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First of all I'd be picking up the short retired last in training, and I'd use gun help, only caveat to that is blowing a whistle to get the dog under control and settled down to take help better if needed, likely in scenario 2.
 

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Or does it depend on the "crime"?


Scenario 1 - A dog is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog comes in looking...and hunts in the AOF for a few seconds...then the hunt gets bigger...and a little bigger...and the dog starts to push deep and towards a standout gunner...

Scenario 2- A dog is is sent to pick up the short retired memory bird...the dog takes a nice line but just blows past the AOF and keeps on running (but not towards another gun and he is not influenced by another gun).
It depends on the "crime" and the severity of the crime IMHO is based on previous training.

Like most marking concepts, I introduce short retired marks with doubles, shot short bird then long go-bird. The dog would already be experienced in standout doubles and triples shot short to long go-bird.

Dog #1 in my double is beginning to return to an old fall, a crime is in progress, when clearly committed to the other gun stop- nick- gunner comes out and helps
Dog #2 has committed no crime. They just didn't remember the mark, tell thrower to come out and get them back to the area

Tim
 

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First of all I'd be picking up the short retired last in training, and I'd use gun help, only caveat to that is blowing a whistle to get the dog under control and settled down to take help better if needed, likely in scenario 2.
Why would you pick up the short retired last in training? Are we talking about if its in front of a standout gun?
 

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Why would you pick up the short retired last in training? Are we talking about if its in front of a standout gun?
Its the way Dave Rorem thinks is the best way to train on short retireds, and i spent as much time as I could training with him the last few years and saw how it worked and its the way I want to train them on.
 

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Its the way Dave Rorem thinks is the best way to train on short retireds, and i spent as much time as I could training with him the last few years and saw how it worked and its the way I want to train them on.
Interesting! I ran across an old video on Youtube of him and Rex Carr. They said you always wanted to pick up that bird last. By doing that, the dog(s) would usually start selecting that bird second on their own.
 

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Gun help is always my preferred method. Tough question, not knowing the dogs history.
I wouldn't do a set up like that unless I know the dog is good at short retired birds. I would only do this setup if I'm looking for a correction(Scenario 2)! Other wise keep the short bird isolated so the dog can recover on his own. Let him hunt without the fear of being in trouble or ruining the rest of your setup.
 

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Its the way Dave Rorem thinks is the best way to train on short retireds, and i spent as much time as I could training with him the last few years and saw how it worked and its the way I want to train them on.
So does this training philosophy only pertain to SR in front of a standout gunner? DO you still pick up the SR last if you have multiple retired guns in the test?
 

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So does this training philosophy only pertain to SR in front of a standout gunner? DO you still pick up the SR last if you have multiple retired guns in the test?
It's for when you want to train on a SR. If you're training on a SR why would you have a LR out there??
 
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