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Way of subject but kind of funny.
A friend of mine had to speak at a dog event years ago. Don't recall what it was but it involved many breeds.
His sister had Basset Hounds and he ask her if he could take one to show as an example during his speech.
She was thrilled at first, then he told her that every possible defect a dog could possibly have was in that one dog of hers.
 

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No doubt that it is. The biggest difference isn't size, it's how the dogs are built.
Apparently this is what some people think a lab looks like.
Could this dog run an all age land series with style? How long would it last pheasant hunting?
If you want to see a breed ruined you can count on conformation breeders to do it.
View attachment 87762
That dog wouldn't effectively last 5 minutes on an upland hunt
 

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YouTube video of Labrador breed judging at Westminster this year"
(This is a 4-hour video with multiple breeds, but the labs are the first and you don't have to watch much of it to get the idea.)
All Westminster invitees are breed champions. These are what conformation thinks are the best representatives of the breed. Even if a judge has never been hunting, it is hard to imagine how anyone could look at these dogs and think they would be a suitable hunting companion. Just getting the dogs into the vehicle would be a challenge.

(I know, it's beating a dead horse and preaching to the choir.)
 

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YouTube video of Labrador breed judging at Westminster this year"
(This is a 4-hour video with multiple breeds, but the labs are the first and you don't have to watch much of it to get the idea.)
All Westminster invitees are breed champions. These are what conformation thinks are the best representatives of the breed. Even if a judge has never been hunting, it is hard to imagine how anyone could look at these dogs and think they would be a suitable hunting companion. Just getting the dogs into the vehicle would be a challenge.

(I know, it's beating a dead horse and preaching to the choir.)
I just can't believe what the show ring is doing to dogs and I've bred some of the top winning show dogs in my breed. If I was younger I would have to start a new breed to keep the essence of my original breed intact. However, too old to do that.
 

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YouTube video of Labrador breed judging at Westminster this year"
(This is a 4-hour video with multiple breeds, but the labs are the first and you don't have to watch much of it to get the idea.)
All Westminster invitees are breed champions. These are what conformation thinks are the best representatives of the breed. Even if a judge has never been hunting, it is hard to imagine how anyone could look at these dogs and think they would be a suitable hunting companion. Just getting the dogs into the vehicle would be a challenge.

(I know, it's beating a dead horse and preaching to the choir.)
I'm thinking those dogs must be on the same diets as their handlers.
 
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The remaining dual purpose retriever that is capable of competing in FT and winning is the chessie. I hope and pray that the breed club continues to support and promote this. If show labs went back to what they were in the 50's 60's, that would not hurt my feelings at all. That said, there are some very nice CH MH labs out there, that, if given the opportunity to lose some weight and get well conditioned, would be fun dogs to hunt over.

To the OP - I am certain you will be able to find the stud that is 60 lb or under. I know of one that is not yet FC/AFC, but is working on it and he is a good looking boy, too.
 

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I used to participate in another sporting venue. I was not a breeder and selected prospects on the basis of performance. If a dog had good confirmation I would show them. I did have several dual champions. And two grands that were also show champions.
There are two notable differences. Those dogs were registered with a working registry and entry fees were much cheaper years ago.
 

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Same here. I would say Hank McNeils Pike may have been the only recent FC stud I can recall seeing in our regions that may have been in the 90 lb range..
how heavy would you say
Same here. I would say Hank McNeils Pike may have been the only recent FC stud I can recall seeing in our regions that may have been in the 90 lb range..
Alex Washburns dog that won the NAFC, Legend Ive seen him run a few times. he was pretty large and extremely plodding. He might not have been 90#, but he was large.
 

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A fit sire at 70lbs isn't my idea of a smaller dog. As drunkenpoacher says there's a long list of dogs like that, just about the lower third of all dogs fitting the breed standard.

From the AKC breed standard .... Size & Weight. Standard height for mature males is 22½ to 24½ inches and for mature females, 21½ to 23½ inches. A correctly built Labrador Retriever male in working condition should weigh between 65 and 80 pounds and a female should weigh between 55 and 70 pounds.

The black lad below was 62 lbs at his fighting weight and I wouldn't call him small. His mate was a different shape, and around 67.



I found the distance discussion fascinating; at first 1000 yards seemed a ridiculous idea, but even a young dog in junior training might well do 10 x 50 yard retrieves there and back. Never thought of it before.

These two lads brought those birds from the far tree line so must have put some mileage on the clock with just one that one drive. A dozen-ish birds, 200 + yards out, then factor in in 4 or 5 more drives and 3-4 days a week and I see where the supplemental feeding I did comes from .... a pound of green tripe over and above their normal winter rations.

No wonder Jack's tongue is hanging out!
 

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Here is an example of a 72-74lb field trial stud. He is the size I like in a male retriever. He has plenty of room in a crate, a boat, and on the couch when he is not training or trialing. Dog Carnivore Working animal Collar Dog breed
Dog Outerwear Green Vertebrate Dog breed
Dog Outerwear Photograph Green Vertebrate
Outerwear Dog Plant Photograph Vertebrate
 
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