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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone!
New to this forum! I am following along Evan Graham Smartwork for my 2 and a half month lab and have a question. I am unsure what I need to be doing for the transition to the floor/ ground in chapter 6? I have read it a few times and just can’t picture it. Currently My pup is heeling, sitting and has been doing great with fetching and bringing them back and dropping at my feet. If anyone can help me out I would appreciate it!
-David
 

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What are you presently working on relative the following flow chart?

Flow-Chart

Given the following and the pup's age, "the transition to the floor" is "fetch" and if "dropping" bumpers at your feet this suggests a need for working on "hold". That should be formalized before spending too much time bringing bumpers back (retrieving) and dropping them at your feet. You do not want to condition dropping bumpers.

Hold conditioning is taught in the sit position (facing you and beside you). Taking the bumper on the "give" or "out" command would be the companion phase. Once "fetch", "hold" and "out" while on a sit are taught, the next step would be walking at heel holding a bumper working gradually on extended walk/hold sessions (motion). The key is to practice the sequences in a seamless manner (very gradually teaching a more complex set of actions).

During this time it is proactive to work/practice/precisely up close starting with a front sit and teaching the pup to move in a pivoting motion ending up sitting beside you. Later, it is easier to have the pup come to heeling position (if he has first been taught to do that without the bumper).

Keep in mind that advanced skills are nothing more then a sequence of individually taught tiny skills (combined). A useful approach (especially when first attempting to train a retriever) is to proactively ask (often) "What does my puppy need to know well to work on this next, new skill that I want to teach?

Lastly, keep a journal.....forgetting is a powerful process that impedes progress.

note: If you have a desire for reality input....use videos.

https://www.kwicklabsii.com/the-conundrum.html

note: The video in the above link is closely relate to the topic of your thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What are you presently working on relative the following flow chart?

Flow-Chart

Given the following and the pup's age, "the transition to the floor" is "fetch" and if "dropping" bumpers at your feet this suggests a need for working on "hold". That should be formalized before spending too much time bringing bumpers back (retrieving) and dropping them at your feet. You do not want to condition dropping bumpers.

Hold conditioning is taught in the sit position (facing you and beside you). Taking the bumper on the "give" or "out" command would be the companion phase. Once "fetch", "hold" and "out" while on a sit are taught, the next step would be walking at heel holding a bumper working gradually on extended walk/hold sessions (motion). The key is to practice the sequences in a seamless manner (very gradually teaching a more complex set of actions).

During this time it is proactive to work/practice/precisely up close starting with a front sit and teaching the pup to move in a pivoting motion ending up sitting beside you. Later, it is easier to have the pup come to heeling position (if he has first been taught to do that without the bumper).

Keep in mind that advanced skills are nothing more then a sequence of individually taught tiny skills (combined). A useful approach (especially when first attempting to train a retriever) is to proactively ask (often) "What does my puppy need to know well to work on this next, new skill that I want to teach?

Lastly, keep a journal.....forgetting is a powerful process that impedes progress.

note: If you have a desire for reality input....use videos.

https://www.kwicklabsii.com/the-conundrum.html

note: The video in the above link is closely relate to the topic of your thread.
Thank you for this post! I am soaking in All of this knowledge and open to any critique! We are wrapping up with the basics of heeling, sit, here etc. I have thrown a few marks with a paint roller for fun and get her excited about fetching. I think I might spend this week with staying back to basics and making sure she is comfortable with everything. Next I wanted to Start with the force fetch portion. I just haven’t done this before so I don’t want to push her too much. She is 2 months and 3 weeks and I think she is ready to move on but wanted someone more experienced opinion. She is progressing great and enjoys it all. What should I be putting in the journal? Yes I’m big on videos just hard to find some following the same program. I did find a few! I will check out your link as well! Again thank you for your help!
 

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Hi David,

If you go to Retriever Training Facebook page , Evan Graham often responds to questions there. Facebook Groups
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I would not start any force fetch till pup has adult teeth in and thats around 5 to 6 months
Vance, that’s what I was kind of wondering! I was trying to look it up but couldn’t find much about age! I felt like she was alittle too young! Could I still work with some fetching stuff or wait so I don’t give her bad habits?
 

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Vance, that’s what I was kind of wondering! I was trying to look it up but couldn’t find much about age! I felt like she was alittle too young! Could I still work with some fetching stuff or wait so I don’t give her bad habits?
You just gotta read the dog after every OB session with my 5 month old BLF we work on hold but her adult teeth came in.
Some dogs it doesnt bother and some act lile your killing them i wouldnt push it to far just make it fun your pup is very young
 

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"What should I be putting in the journal? Yes I’m big on videos just hard to find some following the same program."

Keep in mind that watching someone train is more about observing the behavior of the trainer and dog. Engagement is not easy and a responsive pup is created by how well the trainer is working with the pup. It should be in a manner that is correct and rewarding at the same time. Watching other program videos can be useful if you focus on the interactions that are taking place. The behaviors of trainers working on a specific skill set is not that much different from program to program. Teaching sequentially, making it fun/rewarding and maintaining balance are universal concepts.

A journal should include what you did each day and a why (the lesson, a rationale and an analysis). There should be some data as to record how things went (for you and the pup). As for the video comment, I meant that you should take videos of you working with the pup once in awhile. An I-phone on a tripod works well. Make sure you place the I-phone horizontally so that the video is wider (full screen) instead of the usual narrow, vertical with two black, empty margins. Visual perspectives are often revealing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You just gotta read the dog after every OB session with my 5 month old BLF we work on hold but her adult teeth came in.
Some dogs it doesnt bother and some act lile your killing them i wouldnt push it to far just make it fun your pup is very young
Awesome thank you! Should I throw any marks for her for fun? I try to make it fun for her as a reward after training!
 

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"What should I be putting in the journal? Yes I’m big on videos just hard to find some following the same program."

Keep in mind that watching someone train is more about observing the behavior of the trainer and dog. Engagement is not easy and a responsive pup is created by how well the trainer is working with the pup. It should be in a manner that is correct and rewarding at the same time. Watching other program videos can be useful if you focus on the interactions that are taking place. The behaviors of trainers working on a specific skill set is not that much different from program to program. Teaching sequentially, making it fun/rewarding and maintaining balance are universal concepts.

A journal should include what you did each day and a why (the lesson, a rationale and an analysis). There should be some data as to record how things went (for you and the pup). As for the video comment, I meant that you should take videos of you working with the pup once in awhile. An I-phone on a tripod works well. Make sure you place the I-phone horizontally so that the video is wider (full screen) instead of the usual narrow, vertical with two black, empty margins. Visual perspectives are often revealing.
thank you for all the tips! I really appreciate it!
 

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Frankly, it does not appear that developing drive is an issue. (y) Very nice video! She is young....take your time.
Thank you! Yeah she is doing great! Yeah I’m glad I found this forum! I was trying to rush the process! We are both definitely learning!
 

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Thank you for this post! I am soaking in All of this knowledge and open to any critique! We are wrapping up with the basics of heeling, sit, here etc. I have thrown a few marks with a paint roller for fun and get her excited about fetching. I think I might spend this week with staying back to basics and making sure she is comfortable with everything. Next I wanted to Start with the force fetch portion. I just haven’t done this before so I don’t want to push her too much. She is 2 months and 3 weeks and I think she is ready to move on but wanted someone more experienced opinion. She is progressing great and enjoys it all. What should I be putting in the journal? Yes I’m big on videos just hard to find some following the same program. I did find a few! I will check out your link as well! Again thank you for your help!
Yes it is important that Force Fetching does not begin until Adult teeth are in!

take your time! You can still play fetch with your puppy until then, just work on basic obedience commands and don’t reprimand when she drops it. As baby teeth come out her mouth will be sore as new teeth come it!!!

play fetch using a hallway where she doesn’t get the puppy bumper unless she brings it to you. You can also mold the return to heel with bumper held this way. On yourknees as she returns, hold one hand under her chin to help reinforce the hold, and take hold of collar with the other hand and guide her to your left side (field finish or in Obedience terms left side finish).

working these will help cement the hold and release at your side!!

Don’t rush things! Teeth first!!
 

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Yes it is important that Force Fetching does not begin until Adult teeth are in!

take your time! You can still play fetch with your puppy until then, just work on basic obedience commands and don’t reprimand when she drops it. As baby teeth come out her mouth will be sore as new teeth come it!!!

play fetch using a hallway where she doesn’t get the puppy bumper unless she brings it to you. You can also mold the return to heel with bumper held this way. On yourknees as she returns, hold one hand under her chin to help reinforce the hold, and take hold of collar with the other hand and guide her to your left side (field finish or in Obedience terms left side finish).

working these will help cement the hold and release at your side!!

Don’t rush things! Teeth first!!
Thank your for your help! Appreciate all of that advice!
 
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