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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I train with a group two nights a week and have helper from time to time but for the most part I am on my own four days a week, so I need a launcher or launchers. I have a older dog I run in HRC Seasond and I have a 10 monthe old that will be home in a few weeks that I am planning on running derbys with. What are my options? Can I get buy with a BB derby double using the BB for my memory bird and hand throwing the go bird? I do have a hand launcher that could be used for longer go birds too. Or would a couple of wingers be a better choice. Just looking for Ideas and opinions, befor I spend any money.

Thanks,

Todd
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I was in the same perdicument--I chose two GU wingers. The main reason is I like to train with real birds. I have the dogtra electronics which provides good sound---which came in handy when my young dog needed help in the field. The BB's are nice also but I really prefer the wingers.

good luck
todd
 

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I use two Derby Doubles. I have a 4yr old and a 1yr old pup. I set up a double just about everytime. Running my older dog on the double and most of the time my pup on singles.

My older dog runs HT's, maybe a Qual someday. :?: My pup I hope to run in Derby next year and then onto more FT's.

I like them a lot. by using two DD's the way I do, I can run each dog on two marks, then set up something new in a different area. With my pup, I can move up or simplify if need be, but most times I use the same line, she is a great marker (but then again, who would say different about their pup? :wink: )

Most of the time I set up stickmen by the BBs, but sometime don't. I have had no issues with them at all. I have used them for marks over 300yrds, and no issues w/ recievers.

This set up will work for me now, but I do have my eyes on some wingers, just need to make that step up I believe.

Worst part about the BB's, is when you get back to the line, I always stop and think "did I set the trigger on gun2?????) soooooo, I walk back out and check!!!!

I can do different set ups in pretty short order, sometimes think I can train faster by myself than with a "helper".
 

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It all boils down to your budget. If you own a bumper boy derby doubble right now and a hand held launcher maybe a train-rite stand for that hand held unit and some remote electonics will get you doing a quality doubble with the option of a helper bird off the DD. The remote electronics can always be used on any winger that you purchase in the future.
 

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I train alone most of the time. I used to do a considerable number of hand thrown bumpers from line but have eliminated them other than as bulldogs on the return from a retrieve. I need all my concentration focused on the dog, it is hard to expect high line manner standards if you are throwing a mark from the line and I think hand held launchers fall into the same category. I now consider them a too negative distraction and just focus on the dog and cues not the marks. When time is at a premium I throw marks by hand when doing stand alone singles but then I'm out in the field well away from the dog.

I use 2 BB's and would put additional funds into getting more of these, to provide extra guns stations for multiple marking drills. Though lately I have considered hiring a school kid to do the throwing, logistics are a problem with this but human throwers can provide time saving flexibility and help to the dog that no mechanical system can. I could buy a lot of labour for the price of another Derby Double!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Misty Marsh Labradors said:
It all boils down to your budget. If you own a bumper boy derby doubble right now and a hand held launcher maybe a train-rite stand for that hand held unit and some remote electonics will get you doing a quality doubble with the option of a helper bird off the DD. The remote electronics can always be used on any winger that you purchase in the future.

My budget is about $800.00 and all I have now is a hand held launcher. I'm weighing all my options, trying to get the most with the money I have and get the work done.

How about this set up

1.Bumper boy
2.Train rite stand
3. tritronics remote reciever ( this is a dumb question but can a reciever be oporated from a pro 200 collar ?)


This dog stuff gets more expensive all the time, in the past year I have gone from a hunting dog to adding a new pup that has spent the winter in Fla. ( I didn't get a warm vacation this year) and now more equipment. :lol:
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I use bumber boys, I have two 4 shooters and a derby double. What I dislike about them, no birds. What I like about them is it is easier to help your dog from the bumperboy. For example, if the dog didn't see the mark or starts having trouble and is coming in or is having confidence issues and not quite making it the distance, I can shoot another bumper. The sounds are also exciting to a dog. They are easy to carry and set up.

Wingers are great to have birds, but I do not believe dogs need birds everyday anyway, so training in a group 2 or 3 times a week with birds suits me just fine.

Good Luck

Kris
 

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If you can hold out for someone selling them on the classifieds forum, you might just be able to pick two up in your budget.

This time last year, I bought two of them, one with the pro controller and one without. Worked out perfectly. I think I paid around $700 for the two.

I have been looking around for another DD, or a 4shooter, but haven't seen one come across in a little while. Not used anyway. Most people are trying to sell a newer one that wasn't what they expected, they still feel like they have to get TOP dollar for them. Mine were well used, but still in great shape.
 

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BROWNDOGG said:
Misty Marsh Labradors said:
It all boils down to your budget. If you own a bumper boy derby doubble right now and a hand held launcher maybe a train-rite stand for that hand held unit and some remote electonics will get you doing a quality doubble with the option of a helper bird off the DD. The remote electronics can always be used on any winger that you purchase in the future.

My budget is about $800.00 and all I have now is a hand held launcher. I'm weighing all my options, trying to get the most with the money I have and get the work done.

How about this set up

1.Bumper boy
2.Train rite stand
3. tritronics remote reciever ( this is a dumb question but can a reciever be oporated from a pro 200 collar ?)


This dog stuff gets more expensive all the time, in the past year I have gone from a hunting dog to adding a new pup that has spent the winter in
Fla. ( I didn't get a warm vacation this year) and now more equipment. :lol:

The Pro Control receiver can only be operated by the Pro Control transmitter. The thing a like about the Pro Control receiver is you can operate two pieces of equipment with one receiver.

Jerry
 

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I am No expert, and realy dont consider myself much of a trainer. I have however been able to achieve a HRCH with a very talented dog. More talented than her owner.

I am in much the same perdicament as you. I train with a group only occationally. I dont have the budget for the launchers and wingers ect. My dog has been trained solo by using what I call "Poor Man Marks"

Dog is placed on a board, and I walk out ,throw the marks and walk back! I think it really builds memory. By using a board you can enforce the "sit "command, although its hard to see any creeping.

I have been told that Bailey is an excellent marker! My history at tests have NEVER been with the Marks, but more about line issues. It may stem from being away from the dog when the marks are thrown, but I may be the culpret in that I didnt enforce the standards of "sit". In my mind thats the hard thing to focus on when you train alone!

Good luck!!

Gooser
 
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I train alone 4 out of 6 days/week. I purchased two GU SOG's last year. Set up time is a pain when we're just doing marks. I found they are a great asset for drill work. Birds make the difference. I ran drills with bumpers first then birds. Using the birds adds a tougher aspect to the drill. It's not a big deal for the dog to do a blind past an old fall when it's a bumper. But, when it's a bird. Now your doing some training.

I stopped doing hand thrown bumpers from the line except as a distration when the dog is returning from a mark.

I'm not an expert but, it's worked for me. I'm selling some of my hunting stuff so I can buy another winger. I also went with the Dogtra remotes with duck sound. Hope I helped, Ed
 
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ACEBLDRS said:
If you can hold out for someone selling them on the classifieds forum, you might just be able to pick two up in your budget.

This time last year, I bought two of them, one with the pro controller and one without. Worked out perfectly. I think I paid around $700 for the two.

I have been looking around for another DD, or a 4shooter, but haven't seen one come across in a little while. Not used anyway. Most people are trying to sell a newer one that wasn't what they expected, they still feel like they have to get TOP dollar for them. Mine were well used, but still in great shape.
I agree, watch the classifieds, get the biggest bang for your buck -- as long as the stuff is in good shape...
 

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I use the zinger wingers and would recommend them to anyone who trains alone. You can also purchase a retired gunner to use with them to teach retired marks.
 

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I train alone a lot & love my zinger wingers. Since you train in a group a couple days a week you could use those days to get your multiples in (mix it up there too w/ singles), but on your days alone-don't underestimate the power of a single. You can build a lot into them. You can also use stickmen & have the dog work off multiple gun stations while running singles. KRD drills, etc.

You can't replace or beat bb help, but you could set 2 wingers at the same station if you need to help the dog & the sound is also a nice feature if the dog breaks down.

I wouldn't mind have a bumper boy too, but I like the ability to throw birds w/ my wingers.

M
 

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A couple of things to think about, wingers (most) can be used with birds, bumpers, or DFT’s. Launchers only use bumpers (don’t even think about the bird basket from BB…it stinks). Wingers need electronics and that adds $$$. BB come with electronics included. If you chose to use birds with wingers you also have to think about the cost of birds and where you are going to keep them, you will need a freezer. If you use wingers you always have to reload between dogs. BB’s you can/could run two or more dogs without reloading depending on what model launcher you get.
All that said I much prefer wingers with real birds, that however, is not always the easiest option. IF I were starting out with young dogs and no equipment I would look at the couple of BB’s (more than your current budget). Two derby doubles will take a young dog a long way and you can add another unit when you can afford it and are ready to move on to triples with your dogs. The reason I suggest this is because they are very easy to use and if you are also tight on training time this makes a big difference. I use to train by my self a lot in the evenings and had only so much time before the sun went down. It was very easy to set up the BB’s and train. You just turn them on, load a shell, cock them and run the dog, the set up is a lot less than a winger. You have two bumpers on each unit so you can run two dogs without reloading and if a dog is having a hard time with a mark you have a second bumper, OR you can use the sound to help pull the dog to the mark (get the advanced sound).
The other option is to find a Sugar momma/daddy and get yourself a set of gunners up, a set of BB’s, and anything else you can think of.
 
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solo

we train alone and use zinger wingers I choose them because they can throw ducks and pigeons. We also have six stickmen that we use and I am buying a remote retired gun. The wingers are nice for hunt test training because they make the duck call sound, they are very easy to carry and fit in the back of a Tacoma P/U

cindy
 

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badbullgator said:
...You have two bumpers on each unit so you can run two dogs without reloading and if a dog is having a hard time with a mark you have a second bumper, OR you can use the sound to help pull the dog to the mark (get the advanced sound).
The other option is to find a Sugar momma/daddy and get yourself a set of gunners up, a set of BB’s, and anything else you can think of.
I do not think this can be emphasized enough, with a single winger out at a gun station you have NO help for a young dog who blew a mark. So the dog ends up failing the mark and that is bad for attitude.
I prefer to throw birds but adding duck wings to the bumpers makes a nice difference for using bumpers. So I have both Derby doubles and 2 wingers. At times I will put a winger out and place a BB there for "help throws". I run all my remote stuff of Bumper Boy Elect. Nice to have one remote.

The train rite remote works well, I actually have one that I no longer use if the originator of this thread might be interested in. Before there was Bumper Boy I made my own remote dummy launchers using airplane electronics. They were crude and would occassionally not fire but they got me thru JH and SH with my first dog. I got the Bumper Boys after I saved up for them at first, love them. But love my wingers too but for a young dog I would get a Bumper Boys, just for the help of another throw.
 

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Get a launcer...you can use live birds. BB are also nice though, but the downside is is that you have to use the bumpers and no birds.
 

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Just to add suggested reading on Training Alone -- see FREE articles listed on Retriever ONLINE website -- one very good one on training alone and how Dennis Voight does it
 
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