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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
There are some seriously well bred litters in the Lab pup forum right now! I'm researching a new pup ( for HT and Hunting home) for this spring/ summer and I have my eye on two litters, but its hard to figure out which is the better litter, I think with the breeding in most of the litters on there right now it'd be hard to go wrong! But its been a while since there were so many good litters on here.
 

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Well, I think we can all agree that mine is the best litter, but there are plenty of other good ones out there. ;-). Just trying to be helpful.
 

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Sounds like a voice of experience!
I have run some HT with some really hotly bred dogs, it can be done but the question is are you able to do it and is it really going to be that much fun over the long haul? The line bred Cosmo pup that is calling me out back will never see a hunt test.
 

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I have run some HT with some really hotly bred dogs, it can be done but the question is are you able to do it and is it really going to be that much fun over the long haul? The line bred Cosmo pup that is calling me out back will never see a hunt test.
I hear ya. I'm in the same boat! If I can keep her still in the blind she can smack a six man limit of ducks. But she is not my goto dog for a Georgia duck hunt lol!
 

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Just be careful not to buy too much dog for HT or a hunting dog, some of that heat lives here.
I hear ya' LOL. Looking for a pup now, and want to have "enough" dog to run in a Trial if I can ever be so lucky to get there.

But don't want to wet my pants walking to the line in a HT either... :razz:
 

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Don't mean to hijack or sidetrack this thread, but it has raised some room for discussion.

I've been out of the HT world for the last 7-8 years. Been to a couple here in the last year or so, and notice a trend overall to a "hotter" dog running Master level tests. Lot of creeping, whining, breaking, "right on the edge" work going on. Admittedly, I've seen some awesome work put on by these same dogs.

These dogs were there when I ran, but they didn't seem to be as prevalent. Looking in the catalogs you see a lot "hotter" bred dogs as well. Granted, I'm looking at a narrow sampling around my area.

So for someone looking for a dog to run upper level HT, and make an enjoyable, no hassle gundog, what do you look for in a breeding? Any certain lines to avoid, pursue? What does it take to make a controlled, yet stylish HT/Gundog?

My current gundog/HT dog is nine. He was a bear to run at HT, and quite honestly I recieved little joy in it! Great gundog "skills" wise, but could have been a little less maintenance in the blind.

Broad question for sure, and not meant to start any heated arguments, so let's please keep it civil. PMs are fine on specific lines.

Thanks
 

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Don't mean to hijack or sidetrack this thread, but it has raised some room for discussion.

I've been out of the HT world for the last 7-8 years. Been to a couple here in the last year or so, and notice a trend overall to a "hotter" dog running Master level tests. Lot of creeping, whining, breaking, "right on the edge" work going on. Admittedly, I've seen some awesome work put on by these same dogs.

These dogs were there when I ran, but they didn't seem to be as prevalent. Looking in the catalogs you see a lot "hotter" bred dogs as well. Granted, I'm looking at a narrow sampling around my area.

So for someone looking for a dog to run upper level HT, and make an enjoyable, no hassle gundog, what do you look for in a breeding? Any certain lines to avoid, pursue? What does it take to make a controlled, yet stylish HT/Gundog?

My current gundog/HT dog is nine. He was a bear to run at HT, and quite honestly I recieved little joy in it! Great gundog "skills" wise, but could have been a little less maintenance in the blind.

Broad question for sure, and not meant to start any heated arguments, so let's please keep it civil. PMs are fine on specific lines.

Thanks
I think there are a few things going on here. First, AI is much more common now, so breeders have access to a lot more stud dogs than they once did. Second, more people today understand what the titles mean and are looking for more in a pedigree.
Third, and probably most importantly, many folks breed titles instead of dogs. There are lots of people who breed their bitches to studs that they've never seen because they have the right letters in front of the name or because they are very popular. But if they've never seen the dog work or seen a sampling of his offspring, how can they know what to expect from the pups? But of course if they breed to the "flavor of the week", they can sell pups.
You also have people who want to buy the best pup they can buy and assume that the higher the title on the sire, the "better" the pups must be. A pup sired by a GRHRCH must be better than one by an HRCH. A pup sired by an FC is automatically better than a pup sired by an MH. And a litter sired by an NFC must be the best litter of all!
So you wind up with people going to the line in hunt tests with very talented dogs that they don't know how to control.
Then again, there's also those of us who know we would be more consistent with a much calmer dog, but enjoy running those fire-breathers.
 

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There's also the misconception that all field trial dogs with the FC in front of their name are a handful at the line. A lot of it is the conditioning response of the trainer as well as the drive built in from the parents. I have two dogs currently where one is going to be 4 this summer and the other 2. I trained them differently from the get go and they both have the same kind of bloodlines. One is becoming a manageable handful at the line and the other one is cool as a cucumber. The latter of the two is younger and was conditioned to watch the birds rather than be crazy. The older dog was allowed to be nuts retrieving birds from the get go and was reeled back in later in life.

For a hunting dog, I'd rather have too much dog than not enough any day of the week. A spring snow goose hunt in a muddy cold field will destroy a dog after retrieving 100 birds in a couple hours.
 

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For a hunting dog, I'd rather have too much dog than not enough any day of the week. A spring snow goose hunt in a muddy cold field will destroy a dog after retrieving 100 birds in a couple hours.
Nurture over Nature perhaps?

I guess I'm looking for the dog that can pick up those 100 birds, but can also sit peacefully in a blind for a few hours, and be content to (maybe) pick up a black duck on a morning hunt. :D Which is sadly more typical of local hunting as of late! :(
 

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My opinion. If your looking for a non stress HT Hunting dog I would recomend a GRhrch x GRhrch, why? Because the grand is all about control. Yes they have to be able to mark, but control is the biggest factor at the grand. If a dog is too hot to run the grand then its too hot for the average trainer. Why not get a pup out of proven grand dogs that show the ultimate in control and huntability. There are a ton of HRCH dogs that are just as good as a grand dog but have not been proven so. If the pedigree shows a ton of FC, AFC, NFC then I say thats a great FT line. Yes they can do the HT work but can the average trainer/ handler control this type of breeding? MH test dogs are well versed at the line and are good dogs also. It is just my opinion that theres alot going on at the line at HRC Grand, and a dog that can handle that with control is a dog worth looking into for a HT/ hunting dog.
 

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Nurture over Nature perhaps?

I guess I'm looking for the dog that can pick up those 100 birds, but can also sit peacefully in a blind for a few hours, and be content to (maybe) pick up a black duck on a morning hunt. :D Which is sadly more typical of local hunting as of late! :(
You just described my dam perfectly. That is exactly what we get hunting here in North AL. I also chose the sire because in addition to running trials and complementing my dam, he hunts every season.
 

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My opinion. If your looking for a non stress HT Hunting dog I would recomend a GRhrch x GRhrch, why? Because the grand is all about control. Yes they have to be able to mark, but control is the biggest factor at the grand. If a dog is too hot to run the grand then its too hot for the average trainer. Why not get a pup out of proven grand dogs that show the ultimate in control and huntability. There are a ton of HRCH dogs that are just as good as a grand dog but have not been proven so. If the pedigree shows a ton of FC, AFC, NFC then I say thats a great FT line. Yes they can do the HT work but can the average trainer/ handler control this type of breeding? MH test dogs are well versed at the line and are good dogs also. It is just my opinion that theres alot going on at the line at HRC Grand, and a dog that can handle that with control is a dog worth looking into for a HT/ hunting dog.
And there are some VERY hot GRHRCH dogs that pass the Grand consistently when handled by a pro. Some of these dogs throw VERY hot pups. That's why you have to know the dog, not the title. I have a bitch that I've bred twice. The first time was to an FC and the second time was to a GRHRCH/MH dog. Both litters produced very nice dogs, but the ones from the hunt test dog are considerably more high-strung than the ones from the FC. In the right hands, all of the pups will make strong hunt test dogs, but there are a couple out of that litter that are definitely best suited for a pro or a very good, experienced amateur. All FC dogs aren't fire breathers and all HT dogs aren't calm and steady. You have to know the dog.
 

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Lines With serious Heat, Cosmo, Club-mead Road Warrior (at least the dogs I'm familiar with HOT)

Can be Calm but got the Go-Go-Go (Rebel, High Tech CEO, Pirate; Have to age-but will settle)

My Favorite (Nitro-like to have a little TNT in there, Smart, Sensitive Amateur friendly, Don't need much pressure, don't always do well with pro training)

Of course I can only go by the dogs I'm familiar with, Generalities to be sure, but If I were looking for a pup I'd call the breeder up and ask what they were looking for out of their litter, and what consideration went into picking the match, If Line Manners were not somewhere at the top, I might look on.
 

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The line bred Cosmo pup that is calling me out back will never see a hunt test.
"Line bred Cosmo pup" ... somebody decided to line breed on Cosmo for a reason. You have that pup and are you now complaining that it will never see a hunt test?

Why?

Helen
 

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"Line bred Cosmo pup" ... somebody decided to line breed on Cosmo for a reason. You have that pup and are you now complaining that it will never see a hunt test?

Why?

Helen
I dont think David is complaining...more like making a statement. AND, this isnt his first rodeo with HOTTTT dogs.....I've seen every single dog he owns run at one time or another. Not a pig in the bunch...
 

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Different strokes for different folks for sure! Could debate different traits all day and night. The original poster was commenting on how many well bred pups were advertised now, why does it seem to be so abundant right now? Is the economy making people breed there dogs more now? I have a litter now out of my favorite hunting dog with only a SH title on her bred to a NFC(Yes I have watched him and some offspring run before we bred) and just because of the titles doesn't mean they are selling. I get a few calls a day, but I think there are so many nice litters around people are shopping. Heck I have even thought, Geesh could I really have 2 and buy one from another litter plus my own? Of course I have tried the 2 puppies at once thing, and it don't work for me, 2 years minimum difference for me. Good luck with your search for the right pup, I found mine!
 
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