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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Watching the SRS that was taped on my dvr this morning...

Listening to the commentary about "why" the dogs weren't getting off the boat... Maybe this was brought up on another SRS thread I didn't follow?

One of the commentators said "training imbalance"... (which I guess, yes, it is, but for a reason)

How about... Because if we had THAT blind to run, we'd call our dogs to us from the boat and run the blind. So nobody ever trains on it. LOL But to act like the dogs aren't being "compliant" by not getting off the boat... :)

I haven't watched SRS in a while, but I really do enjoy watching it on TV.

Had chills when Justin Etter was first dog to get the blind. Nice production and coverage.

Again, sorry if this was already covered.

Really fun to see the camera pan and know most of the people you see.

Congratulations to all the contestants!

-Kristie
 

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Kristie, I took a little jab at Danny the other day. Asked him why a big time duck hunter couldn't get a dog out of a boat.

He just laughed.

I would have had trouble getting mine IN the boat to start with. They would have gotten out quickly but not necessarily in the proper direction. :D

Jerry
 

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Kristie Wilder said:
How about... Because if we had THAT blind to run, we'd call our dogs to us from the boat and run the blind.
-Kristie
Exactly and no hunter would ever run it like that either. You would call your dog and give him a line.

From what I heard the judges rewarded quite a bit of bank running on that test and people who chose to challenge the blind got screwed. I hear some may not run SRS any more because of it. They did a nice job of editing out the bankrunning.
 

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HuntinDawg said:
Kristie Wilder said:
How about... Because if we had THAT blind to run, we'd call our dogs to us from the boat and run the blind.
-Kristie
Exactly and no hunter would ever run it like that either. You would call your dog and give him a line.

From what I heard the judges rewarded quite a bit of bank running on that test and people who chose to challenge the blind got screwed. I hear some may not run SRS any more because of it. They did a nice job of editing out the bankrunning.
Well if you heard it, it must be true! I have never seen anyone that did poorly at a test gripe about it.

Wont miss ya at the next one regards,

Zack Potter
 

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Zack said:
HuntinDawg said:
Kristie Wilder said:
How about... Because if we had THAT blind to run, we'd call our dogs to us from the boat and run the blind.
-Kristie
Exactly and no hunter would ever run it like that either. You would call your dog and give him a line.

From what I heard the judges rewarded quite a bit of bank running on that test and people who chose to challenge the blind got screwed. I hear some may not run SRS any more because of it. They did a nice job of editing out the bankrunning.
Well if you heard it, it must be true! I have never seen anyone that did poorly at a test gripe about it.

Wont miss ya at the next one regards,

Zack Potter
Look Zack. I wasn't there. I don't have a dog qualified to enter. When my dog does earn his HRCH, I probably still won't enter (time, travel, expectation of really being able to compete, ability to take the time to actually go to Hot Springs if my dog got lucky enough to qualify for it, etc.), but it does look like a lot of fun. If we had one close to me I might go watch it. I do like to watch it on TV. I will continue to watch it because I like to see good retriever work and I do know and/or have met quite a few of the participants, which makes it more interesting. I have never been to the SRS so I don't know where your smart ass "won't miss ya at the next one" comes from, but you can go take a flying leap.

Soooo, no criticism can be valid unless it came from the winner of the event? That is what you are implying, which is absurd. BTW the criticism came from someone who wasn't affected by it, so it wasn't sour grapes as far as where I heard the comment from. But this person told me that some other people got screwed by it (the judging that didn't ding some folks for bankrunning and not challenging the blind) and that one or more of them probably won't return. The person who told me that the judging was faulty for some dogs at that test is going to continue running in the event, so again it isn't a case of this person "taking their toys and going home."

You have pretty thin skin on this one. Were you one of the judges?

Get out of my crap regards,

Phillip Seay
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here's where the idea came from.




It's not really that uncommon when you think about it. I was hunting on the Snake River in Idaho last winter. It was cold - about 5 degrees. I was hunting with my good friend Chad Belding and we had another couple hunters and camera crew with us shooting an episode of Waterdog.

The morning started off great; the ducks were flying well. As the morning got older things began slow down considerably. So, Chad and I jumped in one of the jet boats to go down river and see if there were any birds around. Lots of divers down there, but very few mallards, which we were after. As we headed back up we could see a big bunch of ducks leaving the spread. We rolled up into the decoys and I jumped out to pull the boat behind the cattails.

Just as I jumped out one of the guys said hey we have a Teal down way out in the middle of the river. I looked at Yella sitting on the front of the boat and sent her. Now the current was rolling pretty good and I could see that if we didn't get this bird picked up pretty soon this would be a huge production getting back in the boat pulling it out of the shallows and chasing the bird a 1/2 mile down river.

I got her rolling that direction, and here comes another BIG flock of Green wings came piling into the decoys. The guys dropped three. It took me 5 or 6 whistles to get her off those birds and keep rolling on that long bird and 30 minutes later she showed up with the bird. This is exactly how many of the SRS scenarios come about. Hunting will give you a tougher scenario than anything you could ever come up with on your own.
 

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HuntinDawg said:
Exactly and no hunter would ever run it like that either. You would call your dog and give him a line.
A hunter wouldn't? Your saying I should call my dog in, which is already in the boat, and run a line back through the boat? That's crazy and could get a dog hurt. I've run something similar many times in actual hunting situations.....and all these years I thought I was a duck hunter! :?
 

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Dman said:
HuntinDawg said:
Exactly and no hunter would ever run it like that either. You would call your dog and give him a line.
A hunter wouldn't? Your saying I should call my dog in, which is already in the boat, and run a line back through the boat? That's crazy and could get a dog hurt.
No, not if the line to the blind would call for him to go right back through the boat. That would be pointless. I was thinking that if you called the dog to you then you would have a somewhat different perspective and thus a slightly different line to the blind...or at least you could take a couple of steps to one side or the other as your dog was coming to you, thus taking the boat out of play. I just don't think I would pass up the opportunity to start the blind off well (especially such a long one) by giving my dog a good line and sending from my side with a loud send.

Dman said:
I've run something similar many times in actual hunting situations
OK, if you say so. I'm not going to doubt you or debate that. In 13 years of duck hunting (which is much less than many others here I'm sure) I've never encountered anything remotely like that and if I did, I can virtually guarantee you that I would either hustle my butt into the boat and send the dog from my side or call him to me (sidestepping to provide the line I desired if necessary) and send him from my side.

Dman said:
.....and all these years I thought I was a duck hunter! :?
I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise and I'm suprised if you really took it that way. I don't think Kristie actually hunts, so I was just letting her know that in my opinion, it isn't something a hunter would do (or be likely to encounter for that matter). Obviously that was my opinion and it didn't jive with your experiences. I guess I shouldn't have stated it in such an absolute...kind of a never say never situation.

I do plan to set something like this up though (with a shorter blind, that blind would have been too much for my young dog even without the boat scenario) just to see if my dog would cast off of the boat. I would assume that he would, but I'm sure most of those who went out on that blind would have thought their dog would cast off of it too (at least until they witnessed dog after dog fail to do so).
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I do go hunting, just to clarify.... Just took a hiatus while Joie was at school for almost four years... :)
 

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I agree with you Huntindawg.............

I hunt 45-50 days a year.

Each of the past 5 years I have purchased hunting liscenses for 7 different states.

I don't count the ducks I shoot but I'd say we get our fair share. :wink:

..........................................................................................................................And I have NEVER once sent my dog from a boat from a remote position on a blind.

I believe if I needed to run a blind and my dog was in the boat I'd just say to Dozer........................

Hurry up, get your a$$ over hear............you see that? Dead bird.............back.

My chances are much better that way to save time than to send him into a river with teal landing in decoys or whatever the scenerio was. And if I read that right, it took the team 30 minutes to do that blind.

So......................

My conclusion from the story...............

It didn't work well in the field so why set it up in a test?

:lol: :lol:
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I guess the reason i posted this originally was that it was a shame to see so many dogs go out on three strikes to get in the water, pack up and go home.

Yes, I know plenty of us go home in the first series... But short of breaking, there's not TOO many situations where you'd have the plethora of refusals from large numbers of dogs.

On that note, I think it's odd that so many dogs wouldn't jump in? I'd like to try it just for kicks one day...

I would think that most well-trained dogs would get in at least within three tries? It reminds me that I don't think I've ever run a remote blind in training... and some day I'm going to see one somewhere. :)

-K
 

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I'm not saying it is common for most people, but around here we have a lot of buckbrush around the shoreline of nearly all old oxbow lakes. The cover in most places is so thick it is impossible to send a dog through it. What we do is cut a hole in the brush and pull a boat up in the hole. Most times, we leave the boat there (I hunt private property) so the only access to the water is out the back of the boat. I sometimes place the dog in the boat and wade out to hunt.

Anyone that thinks hunting a dog remote is not done very often, hasn't been around duck hunting very long.....or lead a sheltered duck hunting life. These dogs can do many things, and one of them is make it easier for an old fart like me to kill more ducks.

Would you train for a scenario like this, probably not. But if you duck hunt a lot, you will at some point need a lot of skills you haven't trained for.

So Gut, how many years you been hunting 45-50 days a year?
 

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Dman said:
So Gut, how many years you been hunting 45-50 days a year?
Since college and that started in 89'.

You mention hunting a dog from a remote sit.............

Yes, that happens ALL the time.................

But sending your dog from a remote sit on a blind from a boat I just can't see happening.

Big difference.

And in the case of you saying calling your dog to run a blind through a boat.........

In your hunting example, that wouldn't happen because the dog is behind you while hunting I would assume, not in a boat in front of you. :wink:
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ken Guthrie said:
Dman said:
So Gut, how many years you been hunting 45-50 days a year?
Since college and that started in 89'.

You mention hunting a dog from a remote sit.............

Yes, that happens ALL the time.................

But sending your dog from a remote sit on a blind from a boat I just can't see happening.

Big difference.

And in the case of you saying calling your dog to run a blind through a boat.........

In your hunting example, that wouldn't happen because the dog is behind you while hunting I would assume, not in a boat in front of you. :wink:
Agree. and you can't tell me that MANY MANY of the 100+ dogs (right? didn't only 30 something actually get off the boat? The remainder failed?) that failed the SRS boat blind aren't absolutely AVID hunters. Many of the trainers and handlers, from my personal experience with them, are quite avid hunters and I just can't imagine their dogs aren't?

I'm still trying to figure out WHY the dogs wouldn't go?

-K
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Maybe it was a case of "reverse test wise" where the dogs would probably go hunting, but it wasn't a "normal" test/trial situation??

-K
 

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Kristie Wilder said:
I'm still trying to figure out WHY the dogs wouldn't go?

-K
because a dog knows the difference between hunting and trialing/testing.

And when it comes to the line so many times and done a "normal" thing and then..............

BAM..................

You put em' in a boat and walk away to send them on a blind with a poison bird shot in route with Santa Claus ringing a bell then a herd of Zebra's comes running through then 4 naked ladies start yelling............

They set these tests up to mind trick the dogs...........PERIOD.

Is that a bad thing? Don't know, haven't tried one yet.

But will in about a month I hope.
 

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Ken Guthrie said:
But sending your dog from a remote sit on a blind from a boat I just can't see happening.
Sorry none of you can "see" this happening. I guess I'm just weird, because I've done it several times.

I do think however that Gut is right in his answer to the question as to why so many dogs didn't leave the boat.

Gut, you're not understanding what I'm talking about in my scenario and if I knew how to draw a picture, I could illustrate it. Maybe when you've hunted as long and as often as I have, you'll "see" it done. :wink:
 

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Kristie Wilder said:
Ken Guthrie said:
Dman said:
So Gut, how many years you been hunting 45-50 days a year?
Since college and that started in 89'.

You mention hunting a dog from a remote sit.............

Yes, that happens ALL the time.................

But sending your dog from a remote sit on a blind from a boat I just can't see happening.

Big difference.

And in the case of you saying calling your dog to run a blind through a boat.........

In your hunting example, that wouldn't happen because the dog is behind you while hunting I would assume, not in a boat in front of you. :wink:
Agree. and you can't tell me that MANY MANY of the 100+ dogs (right? didn't only 30 something actually get off the boat? The remainder failed?) that failed the SRS boat blind aren't absolutely AVID hunters. Many of the trainers and handlers, from my personal experience with them, are quite avid hunters and I just can't imagine their dogs aren't?

I'm still trying to figure out WHY the dogs wouldn't go?

-K
Kristie,

I hope you'll come run. I think you'll enjoy it...

Thanks,

JT
 
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