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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here my problem, dog has on collar (Dogtra), during basic obedience he responds appropriately on a level 20 setting, any higher gets mild shut down or extreme vocalization. I have a 20 foot check chord. I throw the marks, he watches it fall, may raise his butt a little, and then slowly lowers it, keeps his eyes on the mark waiting for the release. I say red, green, purple, one, five, niner..... He doesn't flinch. I say, "Waylon" and its off to the races. I do this repeatedly, with a very high percentage of compliance, probably 80-85%. I may have him break once out of ten marks.

I remove the check chord, have him at heel, throw the mark, and its katy bar the dang door there is no bringing him back. He's off to the races. I crank the caller up in hopes of gaining control before he makes it, try to reel him back in and he doesn't reel back in. He gets the mark brings it back and I have him at heel, bring the collar level back down, sit, nick, sit, and he might make through one to three more without breaking and then it happens again.

He knows when the check chord is on him, even if I don't have it in my hands or there is no tension on the line.

How do I get him to stop and come back to not reward his breaking?
 

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shorten your rope,
time for a tab, as we call um.
dog will still think he is on a rope.
BTW, if you use the same "red, green, blue, Fred, Wilma, bam bam, 'fore every send.
You are not steadying your dog, just making him think he has a real long name.


.
 

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Sounds to me it's time for some proofing..without the check cord. If it were me, I'd take it off and leave it off...Begin working with the dog without it. I'd do a short-n-sweet O.B. session with the collar in the yard right before going into the training field.

If you've got an available assistant, I'd have him toss marks from a distance while you handle the dog at the line with proper corrections...Your dog gets absolutely nuthin' until he's steady...no retrieve..nuthin'. Direct him right back to the line when he breaks.

He's dinkin' ya' without the checkcord. I'd have clipped winged birds in his face in the training field as well, and again, he doesn't get a thing until he's steady.

Get your P.F. flyers on...
 

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Steadying a dog is a slow structured process. You don't go directly from a 20ft. check cord to ecollar.
First work on sit, which you did.
Then put on short lead with choke chain, say 18 inches to 2 ft.
First hold lead taunt. If he lifts butt then slap him on butt with healing stick. Don't let him have bumper.
After he gets this down, let lead be loose forming a "j" under his neck but holding on to it and stick him if he moves.
Repeat this until steady.
Next step is to let lead dangle on the ground (sometimes you can step on the lead if necessary). But have a bird boy to pick up bumper if breaks. By now he should be where you can call him back if he breaks.

Now you can use the ecollar but at first use birdboy to pick up bumper if breaks.
Hope this helps.

When releasing the dog just drop the lead and let him run with it on. Before ecollars trainers use to gradually reduce the lead in length so that it was only about an inch or two long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Or you would think.

I don't really know any more, getting to a point of frustration the likes of which I have never experienced before. I think I did a really good job on force fetch......

I can't beat him to the bumper, there is no point in burning him back because he fights all the way to the bumper and then back and he is coming back to here, so I don't think the pressure is either A) being conveyed or delivered properly or B) he just thinks the pressure means run to that bumper faster and then it will cease.....

I think out in a field his brain gets scrambled and he comes unglued sometimes because other areas will start to unravel as well. Its hard to describe.
 

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If he is not responding to the pressure he hasn't been properly conditioned to it.
You really need to find an experienced trainer to watch what's going on and help you out.

Bert
 

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Dont send the dog from your side if YOU are the BB.

You sit the dog,, walk out a short distance, and throw the bird,,,
If the dog is collar conditioned to sit,, you can use the collar for correction..

If NOT you will be close enough to the bird to pick it up..

Slowly increase the distance you are away from the dog when you throw..

You can also incorporate a fence post to wrapthe check cord around, so that if you need to pull it, the cord will "Pull" in the righ direction.

Gooser
 

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Almost Moronic that Gooser is giving advice on steadying a dog!!:p:p

Those that know me are prolly laughin out lowd.

Gooser
 

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Dont send the dog from your side if YOU are the BB.

You sit the dog,, walk out a short distance, and throw the bird,,,
If the dog is collar conditioned to sit,, you can use the collar for correction..

If NOT you will be close enough to the bird to pick it up..

Slowly increase the distance you are away from the dog when you throw..

You can also incorporate a fence post to wrapthe check cord around, so that if you need to pull it, the cord will "Pull" in the righ direction.

Gooser
Traffic Cop right?
 

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Or you would think.

I don't really know any more, getting to a point of frustration the likes of which I have never experienced before. I think I did a really good job on force fetch......

I can't beat him to the bumper, there is no point in burning him back because he fights all the way to the bumper and then back and he is coming back to here, so I don't think the pressure is either A) being conveyed or delivered properly or B) he just thinks the pressure means run to that bumper faster and then it will cease.....

I think out in a field his brain gets scrambled and he comes unglued sometimes because other areas will start to unravel as well. Its hard to describe.
Sounds like he's been properly forced, but just has a slight hole in Obedience..
I would check the collar for proper fit/contact. (Maybe you missed a step in FTP with a whistle/remote SIT to the pile?)
Regardless-
Sounds like an Obedience issue to me, nothing more...and perhaps a managerie/quagmire of confusing verbal commands/corrections/ collar corrections, and a checkcord-wise dog...make him SIT untill SENT...period.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dont send the dog from your side if YOU are the BB.

You sit the dog,, walk out a short distance, and throw the bird,,,
If the dog is collar conditioned to sit,, you can use the collar for correction..

If NOT you will be close enough to the bird to pick it up..

Slowly increase the distance you are away from the dog when you throw..

You can also incorporate a fence post to wrapthe check cord around, so that if you need to pull it, the cord will "Pull" in the righ direction.

Gooser

I have used this technique before with previous dogs, I could walk out and throw my own 100 or 200 yard marks and walk back to send the dog. This dog is different, I am not saying it isn't possible or that I am not going to try that, he's just different.
 

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HOW is he "different"

Gooser

Gooser is just about betting this is all leading to a "sit" standard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sounds like he's been properly forced, but just has a slight hole in Obedience..
I would check the collar for proper fit/contact. (Maybe you missed a step in FTP with a whistle/remote SIT to the pile?)
Regardless-
Sounds like an Obedience issue to me, nothing more...and perhaps a managerie/quagmire of confusing verbal commands/corrections/ collar corrections, and a checkcord-wise dog...make him SIT untill SENT...period.
To give you an idea, this is what I attempted today and realized I have to approach this in another manner.

Attached the lead, let it hang there, pitched 5 marks, he waited until sent on each mark.

Detached the lead, threw three marks, did "sit" nick "sit", to reinforce the command of sit until sent. He did really well.

Then the wheels came off, on number four he took off, I tried to bring up back in before he got there, couldn't do it. He started to come in and I met him half way, removed the bumper from his mouth, by the time the bumper left my hand and hit the ground he was on it (applying no stimulation on my end), I took it from his mouth and told him to leave it (which in the yard he will). My intentions were to leave the bumper, have him come back and sit for a period of time then send him (perhaps dumb on my part). Each time I would remove it from his mouth toss it behind me and get him and heel he would scoop it up. Its like he has to have it in his mouth no matter the cost. I put the lead back on and do fetch no fetch. We pass by a bumper and he COMES UNGLUED, fighting me with all he has, spinning, doing everything in his power to get that bumper in his mouth. Finally I threw up my hands and crated him........

Will try again at lunch.
 
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