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Style - Ranking?

  • 1) Style

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2) Nose

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3) Tractable

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5) Solid Line Manners

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6) Precise Lining/Handling

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Nothing tough, nothing deep but with the threads on "Style" as it pertains to FT & Judging what are your thoughts as a HT participant or even the Hunter? Where does this genetic quality rank against other qualities, some Genetic some Trained? No doubt it will not be #1 in % but it will be intiresting to see where it compares with the more mechanical features of the trained retrieve.
Peake
PS *It goes unsaid that none of these are mutually exclusive*
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Peake

The Rule Book says: Accurate marking is of primary importance. P.24
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Ted,
Sorry I always try to be "air tight" with my questions (must be smokin' my breakfast again :lol: ) but I was asking about "individual" opinions regardless of Dawg Game or even pure "Meatdawg" (respectful :wink: ) ....
Thanks,
Peake <- Style ranks right below Buggy Pullin' ability, hehe, OK OK :roll:
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Peake,

Somewhat of a loaded question, but I voted for style. The reason for this is I think that "typically" a dog that I would equate with having style comes to the line focused on the field and shows great concentration and proceeds promptly to their destination. With these characteristics they are typically very good markers which is of "Primary Importance". Granted a dog with no nose will have difficulty even w/i the area of the fall, but no nose seems to be a rarity based on my limited experience w/i the game.

My 2cts,
Anthony
 

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I have seen, unfortunately, my share of stylish dogs, who couldn't mark for beans.
 

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Peake -

You are a beast!!!

Style...with pinpoint marking .0000000000000000000000000000001 right behind it.

Good Luck!

Joe S.
 

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I rank pinpoint marking as the highest because it is the rarest and hardest skill to come by. It is also the one of the most geneticly inherited traits with style right behind. Most of the others such as line manners are trained attributes, can't get that from a sperm and a egg. As I have spent time in this game I have gained more respect for the natural ability of these dogs and have played down trained responsesas I have learned to train to that level.
 

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Gman

Which is one of the reasons the rule book emphasizes it. You can't teach some things.
 

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Peake said:
"Style" as it pertains to the Hunter? Where does this genetic quality rank against other qualities, some Genetic some Trained?
As a person who is primarily a hunter, and a FT/HT participant second, I place far more value on a dog being a good marker, having good duck-blind manners, and decent handling.

When the feathers start flying, I want a dog that can keep better track of where all the ducks fall than I can. I don't want him moving, barking, or making a scene which can flare birds. If the dog isn't the best liner in the marsh, but still gets the ducks, great. Only when the dog's line cause me to lose game does it become a problem. Also, most retrieves from the duck/goose blind are well under the distances run in FT's... lining just isn't that important for a 25 yard retrieve.

I had a lab who was 13 during his last hunting season. He was old and slow. He made some retrieves that blew our minds. He was retrieving ducks that he would never have found when he was at his physical prime (one we didn't even know we hit, let alone killed). It took him longer to get them, but given the choice between a slow successful hunt, and a long unsuccessful hunt, I'll take the former over the latter every time.
 

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I like style!

But define what it is?

I think it would be different for different people.

1) Pinpoint Marking
2) Tractable / Solid Line Manners
3) Style
4) Precise Lining/Handling
5) Nose
6) does 'air' during tests lol

Mike
 

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I voted for pinpoint marking.

But???..

What is style?

I like fast dogs! When a dog comes out of the blocks at top speed?..WOW! When he comes back and gives up the bird ready for the second, giving the impression that his "mission" is to get out there and get that bird. I call that style.

Is it the only definition? Not by a long shot.

Joe M.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Mike,
I believe some of the six definitions hold true regardless but "for me Style is"....
Every litl' muscle twitch at the line ready to explode with each shot fired, intense "head/ear up" focus following the marks all the way down,
that lean on a blind that screams "Go!",
a launching water entry "into next week,"
running tail up with purpose and a destination
and yes last but not least for me "mucho" speed on the return 8)
....Hmm, now where can I find that Dawg??? :lol:
Peake
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G-MAN!

Dang it! You beat me to it.

:p

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
OK that's it I'm makin' my own emoticon!!! :evil: Can you see it through the monitor, huh, huh can yah???:twisted: LOL
Peake <-- Joe S. must be slowin down or busy shoveling snow :roll:
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Style? or love of the game?

It seems that what most of you are describing in this thread is a visible love of the game. The descriptions are more along the lines of drive and desire than "style". I think you're talking about a dog that is so happy to be where he is and do what he's doing, that he infects you with the same joy.

It is probably the main reason that we love retrievers.

I suppose that a dog that had style, but no love of the game, might be fun to watch, but would it be fun to hunt with?


---Todd, whose favorite dogs in the duck blind had a lot of :D and a little bit of :twisted:
 

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One of the things that I enjoy most about a stylish dog is how he (or she) looks after the test is over.

They know they have done well ... it shows in the way they swagger off the line ... Like "I know I am BADDDDDDDDDDDDDD"

Absolutely BAD TO THE BONE
 

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My inclination would be to put 'style' in your poll as number 3 or 4. But a dog that pins the mark by walking in a hunt test where there's a box to score that, will not get to the 5 necessary for a pass.

Like you, Dave, I enjoy that huge water entry. It's epitomizes 'style' to the nth degree. But after an MH, HRCH CLM of mine clobbered itself on the hidden rocks with an entry like that while hunting unknown water, I can relate to the dog that enters the water more reserved, and not use that as a markdown in the style category.

Same is true of the 'grey-beards'. If a judge can't recognize a seasoned-citizen doing a far more methodical learned approach to and from the bird, I can only hope that judge has a partner that does.

The difference between a 'rocket' and a 'pig' has many gradations of style needing evaluation, and speed is only one of them.

As to the posters that consider the dog charging to the line ahead of the handler, or the Junior Hunter dragging it's handler through the rose bushes with a grin on it's chops, as style...there's another category on the judge's sheet for that transgression.

UB
 

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If you are looking for HT and hunting abilities I pick lining and handling over pinpoint making. Most hunt test marks are short enough that a dog that takes a good initial line will find itself in the area of the fall. Then with a reasonable nose, the right wind and all the previous falls you are probably in good shape.
For the hunter if you hunt from a blind or a pit the dog isn't going to see the bird fall so again lines and handling over marking.
All the abilities are necessary for a FT winner. A poor marker / good lining-handling dog can still find success at HTs and hunting.
Tim
 

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A lot of good points here.
I vote for marking 1st Line manners 2nd then style. I think a dog can have too much style if you define style as drive and desire. I've seen dogs so wound up with drive and desire that they don't think straight. I think the perfect dog comes to the line and sits with not much more than a little trembleing of the muscles, watches and thinks while the birds go down then moves quickly and briskly to and from the bird when sent.
Pinpoint marking, line manners and a working set of innards in the noggin IS style. So what this all boils down to is your definition of style.
 
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