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Any advice on how to make this go a little smoother. Been working with my 5 month old pup for about 2 weeks on Hold and she hates it. I've been following Hillmanns.

Tried a soft plastic bumper, a Chuck It, a tennis ball bumper, canvas... A bunch of different ones to see what would be easier to hold and she lets all of them slip out or tries to spit it out.

No missing teeth or loose teeth that I could see. Retrieves nicely but drops the bumper at my feet and protests when I try to work her on HOLD, have not seen any real progress.
 

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What are your plans for this pup? Are you planning on hunting with her? Running her in Hunt Tests? Or are you going to run other dog venues such as more advanced obedience?

You may soon need to figure out if it is important enough to you to do formal force fetch.
 

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What are your plans for this pup? Are you planning on hunting with her? Running her in Hunt Tests? Or are you going to run other dog venues such as more advanced obedience?

You may soon need to figure out if it is important enough to you to do formal force fetch.
She is just going to be an upland and waterfowl pup. There are not many if any hunt tests in my area so I wouldn't be training her for that.
 

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Clean paint roller first , at 5 mo pup probably doesn't have all it's big dog teeth. If your dog is going to be used for anything other than a pet it needs to be force fetched
 

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Ben carries all his toys. Everyday I practice hold/give it with him at play time.
Hopefully it will make his formal hold go easier .
Plus he brings his bumper to hand already.
 

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Any advice on how to make this go a little smoother. Been working with my 5 month old pup for about 2 weeks on Hold and she hates it. I've been following Hillmanns.

Tried a soft plastic bumper, a Chuck It, a tennis ball bumper, canvas... A bunch of different ones to see what would be easier to hold and she lets all of them slip out or tries to spit it out.

No missing teeth or loose teeth that I could see. Retrieves nicely but drops the bumper at my feet and protests when I try to work her on HOLD, have not seen any real progress.

5 months she doesn't have all her adult teeth so a sore mouth is probable right now. If your committed to going forward try a leather gloved hand in her mouth. Basically you insert middle and index fingers in her mouth with your thumb along jaw. Dont squeeze her lower jaw, just roll your hand in to her mouth and tell her hold. She will not like this, but be persistent. When she ceases to resist, even for a moment remove your hand. It helps if you have your dog secure so she cannot move while doing this. You can stake her on a very very short lead, nail a collar to a post etc. But you need her under complete control. Once you get past this you can move on to a dumb bell, paint roller or bumper. Recommend waiting until those adult teeth are in though before beginning.
 

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Patience is the key at this age. Probably has a sore mouth.
 

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I had good luck with Hillmann's puppy on everything but hold.

Try the glove in mouth and more traditional hold teaching approach until they understand the concept. Then if you want to go back with Hillmann, watch his YouTube video about hold.
 

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Ben carries all his toys. Everyday I practice hold/give it with him at play time.
Hopefully it will make his formal hold go easier .
Plus he brings his bumper to hand already.
reinforcing good behavior that pup is doing on his own is a GREAT strategy and will pay big dividends later
 

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Any advice on how to make this go a little smoother. Been working with my 5 month old pup for about 2 weeks on Hold and she hates it. I've been following Hillmanns.

Tried a soft plastic bumper, a Chuck It, a tennis ball bumper, canvas... A bunch of different ones to see what would be easier to hold and she lets all of them slip out or tries to spit it out.

No missing teeth or loose teeth that I could see. Retrieves nicely but drops the bumper at my feet and protests when I try to work her on HOLD, have not seen any real progress.
The key is to encourage the hold, before pup has a chance to drop it. Also you can try waving it around and when pup fetches is out of your hand in the excitement, you have an opportunity to gently hold her chin to secure the bumper in her mouth before she has a chance to drop it. Gradually extend the amount of time she holds it on her own. Other trick: when pup is returning from a retrieve, as it is approaches you and before it has dropped bumper try walking away to encourage pup to follow with bumper still in mouth, which should give you an opportunity to praise and extend the hold before pup drops it or to get close to pup before she drops it. Try stuff like that.

Find opportunities to work on it, like while sitting on the couch or when pup brings you a toy (as previous poster mentioned) or a stick, etc. It is all fun.



P.S. I FFed my pup following Hillman, she is the first dog I've trained.
 

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Love clean paint rollers..started using them 5-6 years ago..Also start puppies on the small 4 inch ones..They love um'
 

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Wait until all of her teeth come in. Some arent mentally ready for it even then. 5 mos is a bit young, imo.
 

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" Retrieves nicely but drops the bumper at my feet and protests when I try to work her on HOLD."'

I'm working with an almost five month old with Hillmann's approach and sense that two things in the quote may need some rethinking. First of all, it is important to keep the excitement for the bumper very high with a pup. It is the reward. If she doesn't want to keep it, it's value is not all that high.

Secondly, "working" on hold suggests an attempt to make the pup "do something" rather than creating a level of excitement where the pup really wants it. My pup will drop the bumper once in awhile just because she is "amped" and playing with it. At five months old and teething coming soon, this will not be the time to be too concerned about holding. As long as she is driving, returning and would rather I did not take it away from her....we are "good to go".

Last Sunday, I observed several pups (including mine) working on the Hillmann approach. Not all pups "want it" to the same degree. The level of "animation" required by the handler was critical in achieving positive results. A handler needs to decide just how much energy is necessary. If a pup is dropping the bumper because it isn't all that important (and not some other issue like teeth), a greater level of excitement is required.

In my opinion (from one first time Hillmann trainer to another), if you are picking up the bumper, "trying to work her" and she "protests", that is not in the program.

edit: Here's the link to the beginning of "hold". The first sessions are not done in the field.

The Hold Command (link)
 

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If this were a pup being trained via the Lardy program and an issue were of concern, the responses for dealing with it would focus on just EXACTLY where Lardy treats the situation in his program.

There are many techniques and approaches that I have used successfully with my previous pups that I am NOT doing with Pounce. Retriever skills and behaviors can be taught with several different approaches, but they must be linked sequentially to maintain the focus and integrity of a specific program. Often times, advice is from another program/experience which may be counter-productive and/or out of sequence.

At the top of my list of "wants" is to have a retriever in control of their 'on/off switch" with a responsive, mental focus that can consistently function well in extremely exciting situations.

The "other side of the coin" may be a pup with issues that is claimed to have been trained via the Hillmann program when the trainer did not work the program correctly. Thinking that simply using the Hillmann program will be a "walk in the park" may provide an interesting impedance.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
"
I'm working with an almost five month old with Hillmann's approach and sense that two things in the quote may need some rethinking. First of all, it is important to keep the excitement for the bumper very high with a pup. It is the reward. If she doesn't want to keep it, it's value is not all that high.

Secondly, "working" on hold suggests an attempt to make the pup "do something" rather than creating a level of excitement where the pup really wants it. My pup will drop the bumper once in awhile just because she is "amped" and playing with it. At five months old and teething coming soon, this will not be the time to be too concerned about holding. As long as she is driving, returning and would rather I did not take it away from her....we are "good
The Hold Command (link)
She is very excited for the bumper but has a knack of rolling it with her tougue and mouthing it. This makes it hard for her to have a solid hold on it, she does want it bad but I think her excitement makes it more difficult. If she's holding on her own and we're in the house I say 'good girl' but she drops it. If I hold the bumper in front of her and say fetch she'll go for it with gusto but as soon as I say HOLD she drops it. I can see where I made my mistake from the link you posted but how can I fix it because she is very mouthy with the bumper.

If I try to do what Hillmann did by saying fetch and then saying hold and gently keeping the bumper there and praising, she yawns everytime and I have to hold it myself because she doesn't hang on to it.
 

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"I can see where I made my mistake from the link you posted but how can I fix it because she is very mouthy with the bumper."

What if you decided there was nothing to fix (right now)?

"I think her excitement makes it more difficult."

What if you decided to spend more time allowing her to learn more about handling the excitement?

"If she's holding on her own and we're in the house I say 'good girl' but she drops it. If I hold the bumper in front of her and say fetch she'll go for it with gusto but as soon as I say HOLD she drops it."

I'm thinking there is an entirely different level of excitement in the house. So what if you decided to avoid doing any training in the house?

If she drops the bumper when approaching you, what if you kept running away and continued to keep her excited? I think you would find the bumper would probably remain in her mouth.

And lastly, what is the rationale for now being the time to work on hold?
 

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Any advice on how to make this go a little smoother. Been working with my 5 month old pup for about 2 weeks on Hold and she hates it. I've been following Hillmanns.

Tried a soft plastic bumper, a Chuck It, a tennis ball bumper, canvas... A bunch of different ones to see what would be easier to hold and she lets all of them slip out or tries to spit it out.

No missing teeth or loose teeth that I could see. Retrieves nicely but drops the bumper at my feet and protests when I try to work her on HOLD, have not seen any real progress.
At 5 month , mine are all holding on to a bone. When I chuck it they hold on to it more. If I chuck it some more ...well......funny thing is if I make it a game for just a few minutes it's fun. I let them chew on the rest.
 
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