[Robert S. Libberton]

I had a large heartbreak this week, and I feel compelled to share it with this board so new and old comers alike can possibly learn something. I have been in this sport for 5 years and owned a total of 5 dogs; I have always been searching for THE special dog. I started it because I bought a Chocolate dog that had some breeding in his Pedigree 2 generations back and bought every book I could find. I trained with the local trainer and learned all I could, I trained everywhere and actually made a half assed duck dog. I felt I had something special so I entered a Derby with him and was soundly spanked, twice. I tried hunt tests and found it challenging and thru a couple deployments I lost all I gained in training. I tried my best to retrain him but ended up placing him with family to try again with a fresh start.

I found a local guy at a new duty station who took me under his wing and showed me the error of my training and I went in search of a new dog. Raven was her name and she was sired by a NFC, she was special I earned a Derby 3rd and Qual 3rd @ a year old with her, I trained every day, hard because I wanted to make a statement with her, she passed her littermates by leaps and bounds and I loved her dearly, she was my constant companion and best friend. Once day in training in September I pushed her too hard on a hot day and I killed her, she went in heat stroke. I tried my best to save her and would have done anything to keep any part of her, but the vet told me she was suffering and that there was really no choice, so I accepted that heavy responsibility of my actions and considered quitting the game at that point, the grief of losing your dog is just too damn much.

I had another pup in training at that time so I continued training him and dropped out of the scene for awhile to work on him with a new focus on changing my ways, he was special but really did not fit my personality so I placed him with a new owner when he was 14 months old, he won a Qual 2 months later and I realized I made a huge mistake but made a great friend in his new co-owner, I vicariously lived thru his successes with the dog I trained and felt rewarded. When working with this pup I convinced a friend to buy a pup from a similar breeding that he gave to me when she was 6 months. I bonded instantly with her, she was wonderful, she won a jam @ 10 months old in a derby and passed 4 seniors with a master pass ay 16 months. I felt like she was a true fit with me and would be the first all-age dog I trained myself. This fall she won a 2nd place in the derby and was a solid Qual dog before 2 years old. I began her transition into all-age work, and really allowed myself to love her, she is exactly what I have always wanted and much more. I started another pup and sold him to the same co-owner to concentrate on her and dedicate my now scarce time to only her. I felt she was breeding material and I scheduled a breeding with a local big-time amateur who has an awesome dog, so I started getting her clearances, her cnm test came back negative, her eyes were clear and scheduled her for OFA examinations.

It was then that I learned to hate this game, the vet showed me her hip x-rays and he pointed out a fracture she received as a pup in her Right hip, I had never noticed that her right leg was shorter than her left and she had never showed any lameness but there it was clearer than day, her hip was barely in the socket, "damn" was all I could say, you see I love this dog and she aint going anywhere she's like my kid, and you see I love her. The Vet said she could never have pups and I am okay with that but what concerns me is that her competitive career is over, 2 years of my best down the drain. This dog lives to please and when I think about it, we do this game for us not them, there is no sense risking her being lame forever to satisfy my enjoyment, So now I am without a dog in a game I love to play and don’t have the room to start again because I have the earlier brown dog back at home and the newly diagnosed dog I wont risk injury to. So I am out of this crap until the brown dog leaves to heaven and off to start again.

the point of my rambling is to love these guys as much as you can, they give us their all and never make excuses about pain or discomfort they do it all for you and when you cant train em anymore all they want is to remain your friend. God's been teaching me a lesson to cherish the simple gift of having one to love and that should be the primary goal of owning one.

Rob Libberton

 

[Wayne Dibbley]

Thanks Rob

The pain and passion of retrievers is barely explicable to those outside it.

My second retriever was from a Canadian first, a hard core hunt tester, with a great breeding. She did well as a pup, and LOVED to hunt, as a pup I occassionally noticed a stagger during training but would just call it quits and she'd seem fine.

She earned a high in trial obedience, and her cd at one weekend with 4 passes, and 3 first places.

She ran her first seasoned test after I had done some unique handling development that she taught me a lot about....in that test there were 50 plus dogs, 16 passed, and she was one.... My handling was extremely week and she carried me through the test.

She worked as a guide dog at a local pheasant farm and on pelee island with me...she asn't even 2 years old and I can't count the number of birds she had picked up.

One day with a group on Pelee Island we came through some heavy cover where the dogs weren't even visible as we made the road, she wasn't with us....a few moments later she dragger herself out on two front legs, her rears dragging flat behind her. My first response was that she must have been shot (it happens on the Island)....I scooped her up carried her to the truck and checked her over...no signs of injury and no complaining from her herself. I rested her on the truck the rest of the day and the following day before we made the boat to go home I took her out for a quick shoot, she produced 5 pheasants in short order and I managed to shoot 3 (anyone who knows my shooting ability recognizes this as a miracle itself)....she began staggering and loose in the rear. I picked her up and carried her in.

From then on any form of excercise generated this loss of rear mobility in about 30 minutes.....on one last hunt we were guiding a group of hunters....(if the dog began staggering I'd stop her with a whistle pick her up and carry out)....this day a bird flushed wild into stubble, and I told the group that the dog might not be able to complete the mission but we'd go after it....into the stubble she gets hot, quartering and flagging hard...and starts staggering...her legs go out and she busts the bird and stops....the bird is shot and sails another 100 yards....I blow the sit whistle and tell the guys they'll have to pick up the bird themselves...and she does the unthinkable....she breaks....on two legs all the way to the fall snaps up the bird and drags herself to heel and finishes delivery while I try to man up without crying like a baby.....I give the hunters the bird, and scoop up this incredible retriever and carry her to the truck.

That was her last hunt, she retired to my parents and enjoyed sneaking naps on the couch and eating bon bons....her eyes are going now, but with limited output has managed to not have another episode since....while season after season I've resisted the urge to take her to a hunt test or to a pheasant shoot....

I can't even tell you the story of my first retriever....but as much as you want to walk away and never get so attached, and hooked ever again.....you can't wait for the next one.

Today I have a chocolate male who was a "gift" on a deal gone bad with a breeder locally. He had been poorly socialized and would shell shock at every new person or event. My daughter grew attached to him and my girlfriend to, and just about every time I was convinced he and I would both do better if a local hunter just shot birds over him...my daughter would tell me about being the owner of this dog (my daughter is 4) and she'd come out and handle him on a mark or two (and he'd do great).....

He's prepping to run ukc uplands and doing well, and looks like he should pick up a seasoned pass fairly well too....he may even have the potential for upper level hunt testing, he runs straight, and has a heck of a work ethic....and here I am wanting to COMPETE, but unwilling to dump out on this guy...anxious to see just how far he'll take me.

so now who's rambling lol....sorry about that....

Sorry to hear of your hip discovery, thrilled to hear of your attachment, and anxious to hear about your successes with your next competitive partner.

All the very best,

Wayne Dibbley

 

[Brad B]

I feel ya' man. I have a brown dog that had to lay off his competition due to hip problems. Great hunting and house companion now. Bought a well bred pup that is doing great but my hopes of breeding him ended like yours with a trip to the vet with a bad hip x-ray due to injury as a youngster. So no breeding for him but he's still fun to train and have around.

Like the post said above, it's hard to make folks understand unless you're in the games.

 

[Boondux]

I can't even think about what y'all have gone through - since I'm just getting into the game.

I figured that my dog was a golden - he should want to retrieve. He didn't have much desire and disliked the rigors of formal training - but he is a great family & obedience dog. So instead, I trained my in-laws BLF, Lily. HUGE difference in retrieving desire. She will jump a six foot kennel panel to pick up a retrieve that I send my golden for - and she'll beat him to the bumper. There are dogs that love this game just as much as we do. I can see that it would be hard to tell them that they can't. They don't know "can't."

 

[K G]

Well said, Scott. I feel ya, brother....

I kept a pup out of my FC/AFC that became QAA and made the Derby list both within a month either side of his second birthday. When we xrayed his hips, the vet doing the xray said they looked good to her so they were sent to OFA without my okay. The OFA begged to differ. One ball joint was just ever so slightly out of the "range" of "fair" and he got a "mildly dysplatic" rating. I had the second copy of the xrays sent to me and looked at by two other vets who both said a repositioning would probably have resulted in a "good" rating. I was crushed. Getting the OFA to reclassify hips is no easy matter, and it should never have come to that. I sold him as a hunting dog to a friend in our club who happened to be a pharmacist. He was later killed by someone trying to break into his owner's home.

That was 12 years ago. I've been in some form of "dog poor" with no fewer than four at home since then and multiple washouts (8 total). Only in the past year has old age and infirmity taken me down to two at home with two in training.

Keep your chin up. I'd be willing to bet an opportunity will present itself that you will be able to take advantage of. Patience, while aggravating, is a virtue.

kg

 

[Steve Shaver]

Hey Rob.
I definitly feel your pain and frustration and all I can say is hang in there.
I got my first lab around 1970 or 72. Fell in love with that dog the minute I saw her at 6 weeks old. I was only about 15 at the time and didn't even know FT or HT existed. I only taught her sit stay and a few palor tricks but her super intelligence and eagarness to learn made me think I was a real dog trainer. She caught distemper and died at 10 months.
Next dog I had for thirteen years and was a great gun dog and my constant companion. Had a couple more good dogs come and go in 1998 I got another pup discovered HT and learned what these wonderful animals are capable of. Some of the old RTF crew may remember this dog named Larry, dubed Larry the Wonderdawg by our fearless leader Chris. Larry now 9 and laying here at my feet taught me more than I ever taught him. He breezed through Junior and Senior hunter. Senior title test only 12 out of 42 passed. Then when he turned 2 I went to get the hips xrayed and found him mildly displastic. I was wiped out because of all the time and effort I put into training him, not to mention money spent. I retired him from the games and for next 5 years he was just my buddy and gun dog. Two years ago the work just got to be too much for him. He will still work hard even now but suffers for it later.
I went through 3 more dogs looking for one as special as Larry including a female from a repeat breeding. None of them stacked up and were sold by age 2.
Ok now I'm almost up to the present. This bring me to the two you judged in the Qual a couple weeks ago Rob. I got Pete in 2002 and he has done very well considering the lack of time I've spent on training. He has replaced Larry as my gun dog and I think I will retire him from FT and pursue HT at the master level.
My biggest joy in my short FT career was two weeks ago running under you as Judge Rob. Kitty in only her third Qual took 2nd place and became QAA. Kitty is a special little girl and I am struggling to find enough time to train her to what I know she is capable of.
Getting back to where I started HANG IN THERE ROB. Get another pup, 3 is not too many!!!!! We need people like you in the game. It was a great pleasure to meet you and run under you as a judge and it will be a trial I will never forget. Again get another pup and keep active.

 

[Cleo Watson]

These wonderful creatures that God has entrusted to us really fill our hearts. They give us unconditional love and ask so little of us.

Regarding early injuries to the hips, I was told years ago that if one sustained such an injury that might keep that dog from getting an OFA certificate and the injury was documented by x-rays from your Vet, they (OFA) would certify the uninjured hip. If this is in fact true, we might file this away if it is ever needed.

 

[hhlabradors]

Hi Rob,

I, too, feel your pain. After all the worry about Maggie and Ruby, the dog gods hit me from a completely unexpected direction, and I put my two year old Swedish import to sleep this morning about 1 AM.

There is a big hole in my heart this morning, magnified by all the losses that came over the years before this one .

Why do we do this? For all the highs that come between the lows, I guess. We're all just gamblers.

Rest well, sweet Jolie Bear. May all your birds be flyers and every day end with an all you can eat buffet.

 

[Miriam Wade]

Rob-

This was the first thread I read this morning & I had to wash my face & wait a few minutes before driving into work, so I could compose myself. Absolutely heart breaking & while you are preaching to the choir-right now it's an incredibly personal pain for you.

As has been said-chin up! I know this doesn't take away all the hopes & dreams you had for breeding, but-have you absolutely ruled out that this dog can no longer train & compete? Not passing OFAs doesn't always mean that the dog is more susceptible to injury or isn't going to run solid for years to come. Try & make that phone call to your vet & if you get the ok-keep playing for the joy of it-for you & the dog. You both deserve it. If that's out-keep letting her know how much you love her anyway, but get a new pup. You don't sound like someone who should spectate.

Sorry for your troubles & Best of Luck-

M

 

[Paula H]

Thow me in this heap - one blown ACL, a bad hock, and I'm only down 2 dogs! I almost hate to ask the questions anymore.

But while I'm not at a destination yet, the journey is very educational and fulfilling.

 

[Angie B]

First I want to say I'm sincerely sorry for your plight. Reality sucks!!

That's all the sympathy you'll get out of me... Unless you should get a bad hip then that's another story.

When is it ever the perfect dog, the perfect time, the right amount of money, etc, etc..... ??

We make do and change our perception of perfect.

You can get those hips OFA'd. I've got a dog with a bad hip from a accident and he OFA'd Excellent. He's 9 and goes to work everyday. His hunt test career ended due to a habitual breaking problem, not due to health problem.

Now you want to throw the baby out with the bath water because your 2 year old has a goofy hip! Where is it written in stone that her career has to end? Lots of dogs train and compete with bad wheels. So what?? Oh let me guess, your dream dog didn't turn out to be so dreamy so you want to take your marbles home and not play with her anymore. Shame on you!

You need to talk to a vet that can give you advice on how to keep her healthy and strong. Sounds like you just might need a second opinion all together.

Enjoy your pity party for a while but don't stay too long. Not constuctive for your mental health! Plus you have a dog to train!!! :wink:

Angie

 

[frontier]

So sorry for your challenges and heartache. After 21 years, I have had my dreams crushed a number of times with health issues on fabulous young retriever prospects. I have had my fair share of HD and elbow dysplasia along with OCD in one that had grade III elbow dysplasia. Epilepsy, EIC, muscular myopathy and skeletal dysplasia, malabsportion sydrome so severe the dog required euthanasia, cancer. And that is only what I can think of at this minute. Many times I have thought of throwing in the towel, but the joy my dogs bring me is so fulfilling. The retriever sport and people I meet in the sport enrich my life in ways that I can't even articulate. Please know there are many of us who understand your pain and frustration and emphasize deeply with your current situation.

 

[Miriam Wade]

Wow Angie! Were you the mean girl in high school?!? :shock:

Backing Away Slowly Regards-

M

 

[ErinsEdge]

Have you explored doing a hip replacement? If you truly don't care about breeding and you are sad that her career is over, why wouldn't you look into fixing her. There are a number of dogs that are running with their parts fixed.

 

[RemsBPJasper]

I too know what you're going through. I put one dog down at 2 for aggression only to buy another pup and be slammed with kidney disease, infections, undescended testicle, and he'll be a year old March 15th. So I know we have a lot more in store for us. I haven't even thought about hips, elbows, eyes and the like. It's just one day at a time.

But I've "caught the bug" as they say lol. My boy and I will (try to)compete until his body says no more. And I love him, he's not going anywhere. It's tough mentall, emotionally, and financially, but he's mine and my responsibility. And I wouldn't trade our bond for anything.

Some people never realize the value of what they have, you're much better off for having done so. And most of my friends can't understand why I spend the money I do and why I "put myself through this." But you can't understand until you've been there.

Kourtney

Eleanor - so sorry to hear of your loss!

 

[AmiableLabs]

Wow Angie! Were you the mean girl in high school?!? :shock:

Actually, I sort of agree with Angie.

We had a purebred Irish Setter out of FT lines (rare nowadays) who had two VERY bad hips. But she lived to hunt! We had to decide which was more cruel to her -- to let her work and risk crippling her, or to not let her do what she lived for? We chose the former.

And to be honest, I know dogs are stoic about pain, but those hips rarely hurt her in a way that was visible to us. And when they did we gave her an aspirin and everything was fine.

 

[wsumner]

I also agree with Angie. $hit happens. I go to hunt tests because I enjoy being with my dogs and watching them do what they love to do not to feed my ego. They retrieve because they want to not because they have to. I make them play by my rules but its a game they enjoy playing.

Before you write the dog off check out this thread.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12598&highlight=luke

 

[Miriam Wade]

Wow Angie! Were you the mean girl in high school?!? :shock:

Actually, I sort of agree with Angie.

We had a purebred Irish Setter out of FT lines (rare nowadays) who had two VERY bad hips. But she lived to hunt! We had to decide which was more cruel to her -- to let her work and risk crippling her, or to not let her do what she lived for? We chose the former.

And to be honest, I know dogs are stoic about pain, but those hips rarely hurt her in a way that was visible to us. And when they did we gave her an aspirin and everything was fine.

Kevin-

I tried to go back & delete it I had to go back & read it to see that the delivery wasn't as harsh as I originally thought (I'm the overly sensitive type :roll: ) Besides-I agree that if the dog can keep running/working/trialing-it's the best thing for them both!

M

 

[Guest]

why we do this

Rob I am so sorry to hear about your little girl, I know you will do whats best for her.
Cindy

 

[Steve Shaver]

Wow Angie! Were you the mean girl in high school?!? :shock:

Actually, I sort of agree with Angie.

We had a purebred Irish Setter out of FT lines (rare nowadays) who had two VERY bad hips. But she lived to hunt! We had to decide which was more cruel to her -- to let her work and risk crippling her, or to not let her do what she lived for? We chose the former.

And to be honest, I know dogs are stoic about pain, but those hips rarely hurt her in a way that was visible to us. And when they did we gave her an aspirin and everything was fine.

Kevin-

I tried to go back & delete it I had to go back & read it to see that the delivery wasn't as harsh as I originally thought (I'm the overly sensitive type :roll: ) Besides-I agree that if the dog can keep running/working/trialing-it's the best thing for them both!

M

I agree with all of you.I agree with Miriam, I thought it sounded mean too. I also agree with Kevin for agreeing with Angie. I also agree with Angie but think she could have put it a little nicer.
Thinking I'd like to have Angie backin me if I was to get in a bar room fight but then again Angie may just be the reason for that bar room fight.