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Time is running out! How can you salvage this situation?

  • Scrap the test and set up a new one.

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  • Tweak the test you have, so at least some dogs can get the marks without handling (saves [i]some[/i]

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  • Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

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  • Invest in Kevlar.

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Discussion Starter #1
You are judging a hunt test. For various reasons you are not able to run test dog until 10:00. Then, because it is a long walk to the cars, it is 10:30 before the first dog is ready to run.

The first eight dogs run, and all have had to handle on one or both of the marks. Most are asked to honor on lead. It is now 12:30, and severe thunderstorms are forecast for the late afternoon/evening.

What do you do?

Lisa
 

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It depends..
I would have to have seen the first 8 dogs run and know if they flat out didnt remember, if there was some suction, if scenting conditions were really poor, or if my marks were just more difficult than I had imagined.
tweaking it sounds dangerous since the dogs that had already run would be at a real advantage or disadvantage depending on how you tweak.
 

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What level Senior? Double mark and Honor. The judges should have already had something going befor 10:00.

IMO keep running the dogs and judge the test accordingly. You set up the test now you judge the test. I must say if its that bad the judges need to think about there placement of marks. If they even understand what they did wrong. In a case like this you will end up passing dogs that didn't do that great or not passing very many dogs at all. But you are just on the first series. You should have several dogs with only one handle. Don't make 2nd series such a killer. And it should be fine.

Why were they haveing so much trouble with the marks. And why was it not going befor 10:00.
 

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Give it a rest Lisa. :lol: :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Remember, this is a time-management situation, and you are all the judges. Doesn't matter why you got started so late, or why the dogs are not doing so well with the test. Stuff happens, and this is the reality you are faced with.

The only thing that matters is how long it takes to judge each dog, how much time you have left today, and whether you can get it done without killing the dogs, the handlers, or the HT committee, or short-changing yourself time you will need tomorrow to judge a different test lavel. Could even apply to a pair of FT judges slated to judge Derby & Qual.

Full speed ahead works fine, unless you have a large-ish entry. Then what do you do?

Lisa
 

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I ran a hunt test last November. There were about 45 dogs entered in the master. After the first 15 dogs ran, 2 did the test. After all the dogs ran, 15 were called back to the second series. I felt sorry for the people that had to drive 7 hours plus and did not get to complete the first series. Most dogs broke on the in your face flyer or broke on the honor.
 

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Why are most asked to honor on lead? I would ask myself if the dogs worked in an acceptable manner for the SR level. Did they go to the area of the fall, establish a hunt, etc. If they handled, did they do so quickly and in a minimum # of whistles that indicated they knew the bird was there, or they didn't have a clue? If they just couldn't pick up the bird, then yes, they need to honor on lead, or if they broke, but on the marks, that were picked up, either by handle or on their own in a reasonable fashion, they should still be playing, especially since it is 1st series. I would not 'ease' up my next series. Stick with the program and don't dumb down, just test fairly and judge to the best of your ability.

As far as starting late, I'd still stick to the test, judge according to the level and what your expectations are for that level of dog, not the field. And I would run until dark. If I still needed more time to finish, would get the word out that we start at first light. After that test is over, then of course start your next assignment.
 

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Lisa,

How many dogs entered?

Helpful for crunching the numbers.

Is it Saturday or Sunday?
 

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Boy,

I'd plow on. You can't just change one mark and then rerun the test with the other 8. They basically have seen the test and wouldn't give you a good read. The other option is scrap it. No time for that. I would just judge the best that I could with the circumstances. I find it hard to believe that the test was that poorly put together. Chances are the dogs and or the handlers weren't prepared. You see that alot.

Angie
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How many dogs entered?
Is it Saturday or Sunday?
Finally, someone who asks the relevant questions.

A 20-dog test on Saturday looks a lot different from a 40-dog test on a Sunday. Part of the reason AKC set "breakout" limits recently. More than x dogs entered, it's time to bring in another set of judges, and split the test level.

The other questions are good ones, too. After all, if things started late because of a shortage of bird boys and/or equipment, that's different than if things got started becauzse of bad weather, etc. If it''s the former, then what we decide as judges needs to take that into account. If, for instance, I decide "full speed ahead", I am looking at running over into tomorrow. If they didn't have enough help/equipment to set up the anticipated stakes, will they have enough to set up one extra, unanticipated stake, carried over form the previous day? If not, will all my good intentions of starting with the dawn's early light go down the tubes?

If it's the weather, will the weather be better tomorrow? The same? Worse? Morning thundershowers could delay ALL the judging. Now there is a real bottleneck.

All things to consider. Many clubs are hard pressed to set up all the slated tests in a timely fashion. What happens when one is held over? What happens to the other stakes, some of which may have wanted to use those grounds, that equipment, those birdboys?

Lisa
 

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If the test dog did it and was at the level of the test plow on. Tell the marshal to have everyready to run. Hope /pray that the next eight or so do it. I would say if on sunday its the kiss of death to steart a new test. Prolly the reason for late start will be a good reason not to move and re set up. Hope your in canada or alaska and can run until 10 pm.
 

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Steve Amrein said:
If the test dog did it and was at the level of the test plow on. Tell the marshal to have every ready to run. Hope /pray that the next eight or so do it. I would say if on sunday its the kiss of death to steart a new test. Prolly the reason for late start will be a good reason not to move and re set up. Hope your in canada or alaska and can run until 10 pm.
What if the test dog stank..... That does happen.

Angie
 

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Re: test dog

nelson said:
that's easy, RUN ANOTHER TEST DOG.

Nelson
No other test dog.... :eek: It happens, believe me it does.

Time management, time management

Angie
 

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If the test dog failed but still verified the mechanical issues. Hopefully the test will be do-alble because not every dog is going to do test. I was at a trial not long ago and the 1st 30 or so didnot do it than 12 in a row completed and after that it was hit or miss. Dont panic they will do it. might bruise some handlers , but its not always a gimme. Dont be to mean, espeacilly when I run :lol: :wink:
 

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Full steam ahead!

If you and your co-judge believe this test is within the HT standard for that level then the poor performance of these 8 dogs should not be an issue. With the late start and bad weather consider these poor performances a blessing since you will probably carry less dogs into the next series and may now finish on time.
My only suggestions is get a good marshall to keep dogs rolling up to the line.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK, let's put a little spin on it.

Would you, given that you were made to wait (for whatever reason) to get started, then look at tweaking your test BEFORE running any test dog? Look at what you could change to make the mechanics go smoother, etc.? Try to shave time when and where you could?

I know I would.

Years ago, there was a pair of judges who took 2 (count 'em 2!) days to judge the Derby. They were also the judges for the Qual. They finished up early enough on Saturday, they could have done a quick refurbish of their opening series for the next morning's Qual.

But NO! They stubbornly insisted on opening with a monster water triple (also very technical) and a double water blind. 20 minutes a dog (35 dogs).

I saw a similar situation recently. Just makes me wonder why some people would be so bull-headed, when there are options open to them to change things BEFORE it all gets bunged up.

Time management. It's in everyone's best interests. Unless you invest in Kevlar.

Lisa
 

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OK, let's put a little spin on it.

Would you, given that you were made to wait (for whatever reason) to get started, then look at tweaking your test BEFORE running any test dog? Look at what you could change to make the mechanics go smoother, etc.? Try to shave time when and where you could?
Absolutely!!!!!

Angie
 

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yes by all means set up a faster test if possible because you never know how your to get held up. Cant get dogs from other stakes, weather and or any number of problems. Judged a derby this spring with a national caliber judge and with scrathes had 17 dogs. Should have easily finished, got done on sunday. anything to save time.
 
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