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Purely speculative I know but what would be the criteria for deciding to spay and let's take health concerns out of the equation for the time being. Honestly not every female is going to be or is worthy of being a good brood bitch, so what are your thoughts.
 

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Just had this discussion with some in a training group..

I dont think it really has to do with wether or not She will be a good brood bitch,, but rather a health issue.. So,, why on earth would you want to take THAT out of the equation??????

It has been stated that even if you are not going to breed, then You can still reap the benifit of a spay and lessen the chance of health issues such as mamary cancers ect..

I was told that Most generally, that you shouldnt even consider a spay untill after 3 yrs old because of Hormones and Growth Plates.

I dont know if true or not,, but I got the information from people I hold in very high regard ...

Gooser

I plan on following this advice with my pup... See how She turns out... I can always make the decision later,, so ,, Im in no hurry.

Gooser

P.S.

I am Not a vet,, I have horrible personal health issues,, I have never been spayed.. I HAVE had a Ex wifes Dad threaten to neuter me!!! I did also once fall on the top rail of a split rail fence showing off to a girl!! I landed spread eagle on that rail... SO,, if ya wanna take my opinion out of the equation..... I understand!!

Gooser agin!!
 

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Prime Time Four's a Full House 'Jessie' MH and Wyco's Lena Linda con Besos MH
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When deciding whether to spay or not, I considered:
Do I want to breed one of my girls? My answer - "No. Don't really want puppies and I want to be able to compete and not think about having them go into heat."

Then I researched the "when to spay" by consulting vets who participate in the sport and by researching on the internet.
The consensus was that letting the bitch have her first heat before spaying allowed for maturation, growth hormones, etc, but didn't greatly affect possible health issues. One of my vet sources also felt that by waiting to spay till 1st or 2nd heat decreased future urinary incontinence.

The health issues were of lesser consideration. If I had wanted to breed one of them and all their clearances were good, then I would have not spayed.
 

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Plus another topic in the discussion was how Resposible of an owner are you to make sure you keep your bitch out of harms way,, and not end up with a litter of surprises????
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Plus another topic in the discussion was how Resposible of an owner are you to make sure you keep your bitch out of harms way,, and not end up with a litter of surprises????
This was more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Of course there are health reasons but I just wonder how many buy these females with only a minor understanding of what a responsible breeder has to think about. I also wonder if some think that performance may be affected although I have been around some pretty good spayed females. If I'm not mistaken FC AFC Remingtons Duck Dawg (Remi) comes to mind.
 

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i have never had a working dog till now (he is a male though) but in the past our farm dogs always fattened up after being spayed. might not be the reason but just about every person i know says their house or yard dog retains more weight when they are spayed.
 

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Easy solution for the "fattening up" is to cut back food and more exercise. I have one here that I "battled the bulge" before she was spayed, so it's no different now. She has one un-neutered (or was intact until a month ago, I'll find out Monday) that at the age of 7 1/2 has been a weight gain issue his whole life. Another intact male from the same bitch (different sire) will drop weight rather quickly, but he's just under 2 years old. I have intact bitches that I have to pour the food to them to keep weight on them, others that stay in good shape on half the food the others do. I've seen a spayed working bitch that would stay fat on 2 cups of diet food a day. It varies from one dog to the next.
 

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One very important thing to consider is that: like their human counterparts, the hormones created within the reproductive system that spaying/neutering remove, are needed for more than just reproduction. Some are used to help balance other essential hormones, some help with muscle regeneration and repair, some regulate temperature, metabolism, bone growth and repair, organ function, etc... Think back to your high school biology class when you had to learn about the immune system and all of the important pieces and parts that help maintain optimal health, the hormones produced by the reproductive organs are included. They are also an important component in the "emotional" part of the brain for mental stability.
Also consider what happens when women under go menopause, either due to hysterectomies or naturally, because when you remove the reproductive organs in your female dog, you are doing the same thing. Osteoporosis, other hormone fluctuations that cause mood swings (bitches that start acting more "male"), decreased immunity, slower metabolism, fatty deposits in different places (more around the middle vs distributed evenly), etc..
Spaying does not remove the entire risk of developing mammary cancer, which is also a low risk even among unspayed females and if caught early, easily removed. Yes, dogs do get cancer and not all survive even with the best medical care, but you really have to weigh the odds and risks involved before deciding to remove necessary organs that play such an important role in your dogs' lives.
Spaying DOES help with preventing pyometries spelling? , but they can still occur if the "stump" of the cervix left behind becomes infected.
If I had a female that, for what ever reason, I decided to spay due to not wanting pups or the "hassle" of heat cycles; I would wait until she was at least 2 yrs old or had at least 2 cycles for her to fully mature (mentally and physically) and then I would consider leaving the ovaries and just have the uterus removed. But that is what I would do, you have to make your own decision based on your wants/needs/dog.
 

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See and If I were going to spay a female I'd do it before, the first cycle ~7-12mt. because I don't want the mess or the secondary sex characteristics, to develop. If you have no interest in breeding I see no reason to put it off, says someone who's had several spay females, no bladder issues, no cancer, no mood swings, no weight gain, just hunting partners who were easy to get along with ;) To each their own
 

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I've yet to see the weight gain issue when I've spayed my older girls. Had a couple horse/cattle folks here a few days ago loading up hay, and the gal wanted to meet my Labs, so I took the 2 oldest ones (8.5 and 7.5) out. She said she rarely sees Labs w/ a waistline-- these 2 MUST NOT BE SPAYED! I told her indeed they were spayed... In fact, I've made no food quantity changes on them in years. Both eat ~2 - 2.5 C per day.
I've also never seen anything but positive in the way of attitude change. No more of those dreaded "2 month warnings" where you swear their brains came unwired for a week. I'm been going thru that w/ 2 of mine right now who are due in season in early Sept. Went from being great workers to brainless. :( Nope, if I weren't breeding, it'd be no choice at all....
 

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Exactly. If youre not going to breed (either sex) why would you want to deal with the hormones? Hormones affect US -why wouldnt they affect DOGS? They DO!
FWIW,one of my girls who was spayed,not only after several heats- but several litters- still has the spayed girl urinary incontinence-so not sure if spaying early causes it more . I've had mostly females over 24 years of dogs and at one time or another-early or later- in theirlife they were spayed. Only had two that got the urinary incontinence, one spayed at 6 mos- and one spayed at 6 yrs.
 

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See and If I were going to spay a female I'd do it before, the first cycle ~7-12mt. because I don't want the mess or the secondary sex characteristics, to develop. If you have no interest in breeding I see no reason to put it off, says someone who's had several spay females, no bladder issues, no cancer, no mood swings, no weight gain, just hunting partners who were easy to get along with ;) To each their own
I don't think you'd want to do that if she had an innie. A heat cycle can fix it.
 

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So I can get my female spayed after her first heat cycle? I always thought I had to wait until after 1 yr old. I want to get this pup spayed asap just not to have to deal with the heat cycle.
 

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So I can get my female spayed after her first heat cycle? I always thought I had to wait until after 1 yr old. I want to get this pup spayed asap just not to have to deal with the heat cycle.
Many field dogs will not go into season, until well after they are a year old, (some go in early, some go in late). Average on my girls was ~13-18 mt. After the 1st cycle you will get physical (protruding nips, slightly larger vulva) and mental (hormonal) differences, those of a sexually-mature female. If that's your cup of tea, wait ;). If you feel a year's maturity, regardless of heat cycle is best, go with that. Probably best to discuss proper timing with your vet, be sure to go to a vet that will discuss health benefits etc. of timing with you, many have a "spay every animal at birth" mentality. But When You figure that the majority of pet owners spay early (4-6 mt.) with slight to no negative effects, a year or so waiting until after the heat cycle seems like a long time, to worry about it. Still It's a personal decision; We could argue the importance of hormones, etc. for years and never agree. Wait we've done that ;). For me under 6-7mt for a Lab, seems to soon, I also prefer the look of a non-heat cycled female. Whenever you decided 2 spay have them check everything out prior to surgery, including a possible "innie" inverted uterus, which a heat cycle can sometimes fix, and may cause issues if the spay is done early.
 

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With all of these factors weighing in favor of not spaying/neutering, why does AKC require (as I understand it) this before issuing an ILP number? I would like to run some AKC hunt tests with my non-AKC dog (sire is AKC, dam is not), but having watched a previous pet die from hermangiosarcoma, I am not sure I want to make that 2.4 times more likely, in addition to a greater likelihood of bone cancer.

Or have I misunderstood the AKC ILP registration requirements?

And yes, I got this dog before I really knew what I was doing to "see if I would like the whole idea of dog training" and found myself instantly addicted. I love him to death and I don't really care if we never run a test, but it would be interesting to see what we could do.
 

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With all of these factors weighing in favor of not spaying/neutering, why does AKC require (as I understand it) this before issuing an ILP number? I would like to run some AKC hunt tests with my non-AKC dog (sire is AKC, dam is not), but having watched a previous pet die from hermangiosarcoma, I am not sure I want to make that 2.4 times more likely, in addition to a greater likelihood of bone cancer.

Or have I misunderstood the AKC ILP registration requirements?

And yes, I got this dog before I really knew what I was doing to "see if I would like the whole idea of dog training" and found myself instantly addicted. I love him to death and I don't really care if we never run a test, but it would be interesting to see what we could do.
Because the AKC is in the business of registering and titling PURE BRED DOGS. They do not want to promote people breeding mutts.

WRL
 

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I would agree with you but for there being a requirement to submit pictures of the dog to make sure it is a pure bred dog. You can't register a non-pure bred dog under any circumstances, so it seems like that would take care of not promoting the breeding of non-pure bred dogs.

It appears that once they have decided it is a pure bred dog and thus entitled to alternate registration, an additional requirement is that they be spayed/neutered. I am wondering why that is.
 

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I would agree with you but for there being a requirement to submit pictures of the dog to make sure it is a pure bred dog. You can't register a non-pure bred dog under any circumstances, so it seems like that would take care of not promoting the breeding of non-pure bred dogs.

It appears that once they have decided it is a pure bred dog and thus entitled to alternate registration, an additional requirement is that they be spayed/neutered. I am wondering why that is.
Because they are preserving their stud books. By not requiring Spay/Neuter on those dogs who are not in their pedigree database would be irresponsible on their part.
 
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