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Franny is on day 3 of FF. She is doing fantastic, which is somewhat concerning, as Im sure we will eventually hit a problem area. So far she is holding surprisingly well. I'm going to introduce different and heavier objects before ear pinch/toe hitch. My main question, which people have been largely silent on, is should my pup be able to play with chew toys or chew on bully sticks while going through FF? She will definitely NOT get another retrieve until FF is done, however some of her toys roll around and she chases them on her own... Should I put these up until FF is done? I haven't seen any issues as of yet, but want to know what the more experienced crowd thinks.
 

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Yes. Should not be a problem. Follow your program. Sometimes it's ok to give some short marks to keep attitude up.

Jeff
 
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It's all good. Just do not give a command you do not have the tools to enforce.
However a question is not a command. Example pup brings its squeaky bunny and drops it at your feet. And you ask if it can please fetch that up. And it does. Praise.
Sometimes the best training is when they do not know they are being trained.
 

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Franny is on day 3 of FF. She is doing fantastic, which is somewhat concerning, as Im sure we will eventually hit a problem area. So far she is holding surprisingly well. I'm going to introduce different and heavier objects before ear pinch/toe hitch. My main question, which people have been largely silent on, is should my pup be able to play with chew toys or chew on bully sticks while going through FF? She will definitely NOT get another retrieve until FF is done, however some of her toys roll around and she chases them on her own... Should I put these up until FF is done? I haven't seen any issues as of yet, but want to know what the more experienced crowd thinks.
Why is marking a nono during FF? I dont get it. Its probably the most uncomfortable and stressful time in your pups life and they get nothing positive during it. Granted Ive only ff'd 10 or so dogs, but every single one has done good with some fun bumpers and a few marks mixed in. I believe the phrase, Leave something in it for the dog makes sense.
 

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Its probably the most uncomfortable and stressful time in your pups life and they get nothing positive during it.
I haven't FF'd hundreds of dogs either but this hasn't been my experience. Usually once they figure out the game they don't mind getting on the table one bit. I also throw a couple bumpers after a good session and then its time to go to the kennel and eat. My current dog would run and get on the table as soon as I let her out, she knew the deal. Did she require pressure? Yes. Was it something she dreaded each day? No. Maybe I've just been lucky with willing dogs.
 

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I haven't FF'd hundreds of dogs either but this hasn't been my experience. Usually once they figure out the game they don't mind getting on the table one bit. I also throw a couple bumpers after a good session and then its time to go to the kennel and eat. My current dog would run and get on the table as soon as I let her out, she knew the deal. Did she require pressure? Yes. Was it something she dreaded each day? No. Maybe I've just been lucky with willing dogs.
With my own dogs, Ive had very similar experiences. With dogs that I had not had since birth or 8 weeks, Not always the case. The trust component has been developed and usually makes things go much more smooth.
 

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My dogs dont have toys with the exception of maybe one when they first come home. My puppies have always seemed to like their hedgehog. They play with it and retrieve it but most of all seem to be comforted by it when in their crate. It is roughly the same size as the puppy and I think they look at it as one of their littermates curling up with it as they sleep. Other than that bumpers are their only toy.
As for retrieving I never stop throwing marks during FF, dont even slow down,
 

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Why is marking a nono during FF? I dont get it. Its probably the most uncomfortable and stressful time in your pups life and they get nothing positive during it. Granted Ive only ff'd 10 or so dogs, but every single one has done good with some fun bumpers and a few marks mixed in. I believe the phrase, Leave something in it for the dog makes sense.
There are some dogs that will start stopping and dropping the bumper and bird out in front and not finishing the retrieve. This in turn can lead to making it much harder to FF a dog as you are allowing a bad trait/thought to develop, making the FF process take longer than it needs to be. I have done it both ways, some I roll with marks others I don't lately I just FF with a couple happy throws at the end to see how they handle it if they are putting it together I will throw very few marks if not I will not throw marks. Doing it this way I have been able to have a dog FF in 4-8 days working them each day moving on to the more fun stuff and having the tool to reinforce in the field if needed and the dogs are back doing the fun stuff much quicker.
 

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Toe hitch?
What kind of pointer do you have?
Believe it or not, Chef Niles Bora, there were ads in Gun Dog magazine in the early 90s selling (cringe) "Pointing Boykins." (I only know this because I happened upon one issue that also contained an article by our own "Richard" Hall as his byline went and his beagle [neat story]). I guess the logical progression - had the pointing nonsense been a "successful" marketing as Milner had with "canoe Labs" - would've been "Mini-Pointing 'Peakes."

As for toe-hitching a Boykin as the OP apparently is trying, no. Just no. Because of their size, folks have put them on tables before for easing into force fetch, but I always found a good ol' ottoman made for the best platform for bringing the li'lest retriever up to the right height and immobility for imparting FF.

MG
 

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There are some dogs that will start stopping and dropping the bumper and bird out in front and not finishing the retrieve. This in turn can lead to making it much harder to FF a dog as you are allowing a bad trait/thought to develop, making the FF process take longer than it needs to be. I have done it both ways, some I roll with marks others I don't lately I just FF with a couple happy throws at the end to see how they handle it if they are putting it together I will throw very few marks if not I will not throw marks. Doing it this way I have been able to have a dog FF in 4-8 days working them each day moving on to the more fun stuff and having the tool to reinforce in the field if needed and the dogs are back doing the fun stuff much quicker.
I start working on hold at a very early age with tiny paint rollers and then move on to other things. It always seems that FF is around the time they get new teeth, so i continue to use larger rollers during the transition. After we do our force to here and then move to here with painter roller as well as walking heal with the same roller, it has seemed that they do very little dropping as I hope the concept has taken root. Any of the real marks are done with birds and Ive been lucky that they seem to hold well during those. No one way to skin a cat and Im seriously a very armature trainer.
 

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I start working on hold at a very early age with tiny paint rollers and then move on to other things. It always seems that FF is around the time they get new teeth, so i continue to use larger rollers during the transition. After we do our force to here and then move to here with painter roller as well as walking heal with the same roller, it has seemed that they do very little dropping as I hope the concept has taken root. Any of the real marks are done with birds and Ive been lucky that they seem to hold well during those. No one way to skin a cat and Im seriously a very armature trainer.
I start working on hold at a very early age with not taking anything from the little darlings mouth that they already have . If FF is around the time they get new teeth , then perhaps for me it's not the time , but y'all can do what you want .Around the time when Paint rollers and all manner of things are interesting , I'm just acting the clown ...call me old fashioned ...I like to be more important than a paint roller.
pheww!
I start working on hold by not taking . I always end up with a better delivery , but that's just me .
Dog People in nature Dog breed Carnivore Mammal
 

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I start working on hold at a very early age with not taking anything from the little darlings mouth that they already have . If FF is around the time they get new teeth , then perhaps for me it's not the time , but y'all can do what you want .Around the time when Paint rollers and all manner of things are interesting , I'm just acting the clown ...call me old fashioned ...I like to be more important than a paint roller.
pheww!
I start working on hold by not taking . I always end up with a better delivery , but that's just me . View attachment 91811
What I should have said was FF AFTER they have their permanent teeth. I never take anything away until they run around with it for a while. Same idea I think. Delivery to hand and hold has never been an issue for any of my personal dogs. Others that Ive trained, sometimes a big issue if they havent gotten any work at all until 5-6 months. Not as much fun.
 

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Dogs need to have their adult teeth in, usually 6+ mos of age before hold and ff. Usually chew items aren't a problem. Pups that have been raised with us are the easiest to hold/ff train, probably because we focus on good skills while having fun retrieving paint rollers, bumpers while young. Cient dogs can be a challenge because they can arrive with mouth/retrieving habits that need to be worked through and corrected, this takes time, adding several days to the process. Retrieving while in ff is a great tool and it adds a reward at the end of the session, we've taken a retrieving break in the middle of a session if things get sticky or rough. Keep it at just a couple, keep them short, don't enforce a new skill/or anything the dog doesn't know
 
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Dogs need to have their adult teeth in, usually 6+ mos of age before hold and ff. Usually chew items aren't a problem. Pups that have been raised with us are the easiest to hold/ff train, probably because we focus on good skills while having fun retrieving paint rollers, bumpers while young. Cient dogs can be a challenge because they can arrive with mouth/retrieving habits that need to be worked through and corrected, this takes time, adding several days to the process. Retrieving while in ff is a great tool and it adds a reward at the end of the session, we've taken a retrieving break in the middle of a session if things get sticky or rough. Keep it at just a couple, keep them short, don't enforce a new skill/or anything the dog doesn't know
I would say this is your opinion and there is more than one way to skin a cat. Last four I have forced were all done before 6 months and before adult teeth. I have done one needed to wait till 8 months. The maturity of the dog and how they are raised is more important than the teeth, reading the dog and where they are, what they are capable of and how they handle everything else is most Important This will also tell you if marks are good or bad during this time. Just food for thought.
 
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