[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Hi All,

This starts with a sentence spoken in an after training discussion. "I am not going to run this pup in derby any more, the training I need to do to win a derby will hold this pup back in its progression to being an open winner." Do many feel that the natural progression of teaching is sometimes held up by some folk focusing on derby success instead of the dogs "big picture" of what it is ready to learn next? Would a dog that is learning and progressing nicely, but not good enough for a derby win, go on to greatness in all age stakes? Thank you all.
Ken Bora

 

[Vicki Worthington]

Train for Derby or Open`

Ken,

Many young dogs develop very bad habits running the derby. People get so caught up in getting 2 birds each series that they forget that some rules need to be enforced--even in competition. Line manners often go haywire because dogs get "too high". Cheating often becomes blatent.

That said, if you set out to train for the derby, you will end up with a dog that peaks in the derby. You may never have a dog that will progress beyond. You should always be training with the Open level being your goal. The dog has to have the basics to do the big land/water blinds, the big retired guns--all this calls for discipline and control, while still nurturing desire and style. If you only do double and some triple marks to "train for the derby" you will not be proficient on the blinds and control issues that often determine success in completing the big retired, short retired and blinds necessary for all-age work.

If you let the derby create bad habits like cheating and poor line manners, you will pay for that throughout the remainder of the dog's career (if it has one).

Putting the pressure and training demands on dogs to achieve proficiency in doing cold blinds, taking precise lines, etc. often detracts from their marking ability in the short run because they are concentrating on doing the right thing instead of just getting the chickens.

 

[Gerard Rozas]

Vicki,

One of the bad things about just training for the derby is often trainers slack off on blinds.

I believe blind work is the weight on the see-saw that keeps a dog in check, both for line manners and control.

Seen first hand what a steady diet of derby doubles can do to a dog!
It took 2 years to pickup the pieces and this was a very talented dog (FC-AFC Qed for both Nationals at 4).

Look at most of the top derby dogs today and although they run a ton of derbys - they are in homes that train full time Mon-Fri so they can be tightened up during the week. Most Am trainers - if you remove the weekend - they loose 50%-75% of their training for the week.

 

[Vicki Worthington]

Derby or Open

Gerard.

That's just more of what I'm talking about. No balance, no progression, bad habits. Train for the derby & that's what you get--the derby--forever or at least a long, long time after age 2!

Vicki

 

[Frantz Herr]

Agree with Vicky and Gerard.

On the other hand, derbies are great fun, and there's something bittersweet about knowing that your youngster will lose eligibility at 2. Also, marking is of primary importance, so running some derbies gives you a gauge of that critical part of your youngster's competitiveness in that department.

Always structure your training towards making an all age dog, but don't miss out on the fun of running some derbies along the way.

 

[Tim Carrion]

IMHO train for the open and run wherever you are competitive.
If you are really honest with yourself you will come to realize that most of today's competitive derby dogs can do blinds, retired guns, and concept marks just not at the all-age level. These dogs are being trained with the open in mind and are running this derby because that is there current level.

Tim

 

[Howard N]

I agree with the others. Derbies are fun, but train for the open.

 

[Angie B]

I agree. Look at the big picture. Derby shouldn't be a end in itself. It's just something that's fun to do along the way.

Angie

 

[Jim Person]

Ken, Always train for the top. If the dog has some talent why hold it back. You can still run the derby but don't lower your standard. If dog does something unacceptable thats it for the day. Jim