[john fallon]

When the Rules etc. forbid training on the Stake Grounds from _____ to _______ what are they curtailing ?

Time after time I see it erroneously used to describe an action by the handler deemed a fault while being tested.
To my way of thinking, No Training on the Grounds, was meant to exclusively prohibit the use of the test grounds for training while not being tested during a period prior to and during the event .

john

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

it's kind of a bummer when you make the drive early and meet and set up a nice test on a Friday afternoon. And then as you ride past later going to judges dinner or Motel you see somebody out there practicing your set up. Or training on their own with a crate of birds on the ground in a spot that will muck up your mornings activities. Or rutting up the access so the farmer will blame the test, not the intruders.
The training on grounds rule protects the field.
it's kind of a joke when you are at a test, airing your dog after a 6 hour drive or coming to holding blind with your choke chain and lead and Miss Molly Minivan who was handed a clipboard that morning and born with an attitude gets in your face and says she knows you are training on the grounds and that she is going to make you stop and make an example of you because she is the MARSHAL and she KNOWS the rule!!!!
often, clubs seem forced, due to manpower shortages. To hand that clipboard to the least qualified person they can find.
.

 

[john fallon]

it's kind of a bummer when you make the drive early and meet and set up a nice test on a Friday afternoon. And then as you ride past later going to judges dinner or Motel you see somebody out there practicing your set up. Or training on their own with a crate of birds on the ground in a spot that will muck up your mornings activities. Or rutting up the access so the farmer will blame the test, not the intruders.
The training on grounds rule protects the field.
it's kind of a joke when you are at a test, airing your dog after a 6 hour drive or coming to holding blind with your choke chain and lead and Miss Molly Minivan who was handed a clipboard that morning and born with an attitude gets in your face and says she knows you are training on the grounds and that she is going to make you stop and make an example of you because she is the MARSHAL and she KNOWS the rule!!!!
often, clubs seem forced, due to manpower shortages. To hand that clipboard to the least qualified person they can find.
.

As it pertains to my OP......I am not quite sure that I completely understand what you are trying to say.

john

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

just commenting on clipboard holding know-it-alls and gallery gripers using a rule put in place to protect a chunk of land on people at a test at their own truck tossing a single fun bumper to loosen up a dog. or doing a simple heeling exorcise to pass the time and get the dog into the work with me mind set. That's all. And I waited 4 years and 5 months to reply, giving others a chance to go first. I feel the no training on the grounds rule is to keep the field clean.
　
.

 

[fishduck]

clubs seem forced, due to manpower shortages. To hand that clipboard to the least qualified person they can find.
.

Some days I resemble that remark
Mark Land

 

[Splash_em]

MOST days I resemble that remark
Mark Land

Fixed that for you Mark.

When the make start inducting people into the Marshall's Hall of Fame, you will be getting a nomination.

 

[fishduck]

Fixed that for you Mark.

When the make start inducting people into the Marshall's Hall of Fame, you will be getting a nomination.

All it takes is a strong back and a weak mind.
Mark Land

 

[TN_LAB]

I feel the no training on the grounds rule is to keep the field clean.
　

Yes. And you want to test the skills and training of the dog. You don't want the blinds to be pattern blinds and/or the marks to have been run before.

 

[fishduck]

Yes. And you want to test the skills and training of the dog. You don't want the blinds to be pattern blinds and/or the marks to have been run before.

The one time I heard that happened the judges moved the blind on test day. Judges are intelligent individuals and activity on the grounds always leaves evidence. If someone has run pattern blinds the grass is beat down and the shoreline is disturbed on water blinds. FWIW the individual in question reportedly went down in flames. Dog refused every cast and proceeded to the original blind.
Mark Land

 

[Joe Dutro]

Why would you want to train where a test is going to be run??

In my opinion I can see where training on test grounds could turn out bad. I only live 40 minutes from where our club holds our HT and I will NOT train there for atleast 2 weeks before the test. I don't want my dog walking to the line, looking out and thinking they know where the marks or blinds are.

Even if I knew where the marks or blinds were going to be who is to say that on test day the wind is different and the judges decide to move evrything? I've seen it happen.

Joe

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Why would you want to train where a test is going to be run??.....
Joe

some are truly innocent. from out of state, got to the test the Friday before and are looking for a place to run dogs after a long drive. Fun easy Friday afternoon confidence stuff. I do it myself. so first the fields need to be marked.

others are as opposite of innocent as can be. are a helper helper person for the club and see the set up and think "My dog cant do that!" and smurf out during the judges dinner when everyone else is in one spot and run the set up and run it and run it and run it. And you show up the next a.m. and go "What the Horseradish?"....... seen it.
　
　
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[HuntinDawg]

Why would you want to train where a test is going to be run??

In my opinion I can see where training on test grounds could turn out bad. I only live 40 minutes from where our club holds our HT and I will NOT train there for atleast 2 weeks before the test. I don't want my dog walking to the line, looking out and thinking they know where the marks or blinds are.

Even if I knew where the marks or blinds were going to be who is to say that on test day the wind is different and the judges decide to move evrything? I've seen it happen.

Joe

I understand what you are saying. I've heard it said by pro trainers that they think it can be a disadvantage for a dog to run a test where it frequently trains because it has preconceived notions of what is going to happen and were marks or blinds will be. They could also have memories of places they were burned and think they are not supposed to go there IMO.

However, to answer your question I would just say never underestimate what people will do to gain a PERCEIVED advantage. It doesn't have to be effective in order for someone to try it.

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

The reason I believe is they want the field to recover and not hold distractions, from previous days, training. They also don't want people training on the setup before the test starts. However it is sometimes hard to accomplish this, we have grounds that you pay to get into, and they are the only public grounds in the area. So my question what exactly defines no training of grounds the day before the hunt test? Does it mean no training in the field that has been chosen for testing or no training on the grounds of over 600 areas period? No training of the dogs your running in the test the next day? All I know is if you show up Fri. before the test you got a lot of people watching you, and they cannot mark the fields until dusk. So usually everyone takes it as no training in the park period, which is really sucks when you've traveled far and paid a premium to get in and camp out.

 

[John Lash]

I read it as no training on the grounds prior to the trial, period.

I'm pretty sure not too many years ago it was no training on the grounds a week before the trial.

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

There is always a clown in the gallery who feels he has to reply to every post written on the forum. Thanks Bora.....

/Paul

 

[Joe Dutro]

Maybe a solution would be to post areas around the grounds where tests will NOT be run. That way people can train wihout being in violation of AKC rules. I think I remember somthing up at Fort Pitt similar to this??

At Ohio Valley RC we could easily train outside the "triangle" area during a HT or FT. ODNR has mandated us to stay within the triangle area for our tests, but one could train outside the triangle (across the road) without being in violation of AKC or Ohio State rules.

Joe

 

[WRL]

Sorry, but the no training the day before rule is addressed to the PARTICIPANTS of the test. If the LANDOWNER doesn't want people to train on the grounds the day before then he can post the ground is off limits from x date to x date. AKC has no control over people who are NOT participating in an event.

Take for instance, Pepper's Training grounds here in NW WA: It is posted NO TRAINING for the Sat and Sun when a HT is being held there (or Friday/Sat/Sun for trials). Its not posted for the "day before" no training as then the land owner loses money from people NOT PARTICIPATING that might show up to train on any given Friday.

I believe the "no training the day before" rule is to keep people from practicing what the judges are doing during set-up.

WRL

 

[TN_LAB]

The one time I heard that happened the judges moved the blind on test day. Judges are intelligent individuals and activity on the grounds always leaves evidence. If someone has run pattern blinds the grass is beat down and the shoreline is disturbed on water blinds. FWIW the individual in question reportedly went down in flames. Dog refused every cast and proceeded to the original blind.
Mark Land

I hardly blame the judges and can see how it could backfire for a dog/handler.

 

[john fallon]

Sorry, but the no training the day before rule is addressed to the PARTICIPANTS of the test. If the LANDOWNER doesn't want people to train on the grounds the day before then he can post the ground is off limits from x date to x date. AKC has no control over people who are NOT participating in an event.

Take for instance, Pepper's Training grounds here in NW WA: It is posted NO TRAINING for the Sat and Sun when a HT is being held there (or Friday/Sat/Sun for trials). Its not posted for the "day before" no training as then the land owner loses money from people NOT PARTICIPATING that might show up to train on any given Friday.

I believe the "no training the day before" rule is to keep people from practicing what the judges are doing during set-up.

WRL

If I were a member in good standing with the AKC, and were for some reason not entered, could I not be brought up on unsportsmanlike conduct charges anyhow for not observing this quarantine ?

An example would be on the day before the event,a group of huntesters training on the designated FT grounds or vice verse ?

john

 

[Zman1001]

The no training is for the "Designated trial/test grounds" as per the club (according to Jerry Mann). If a club designates the entire grounds (i.e. 600 acres) to be trial grounds, there is no training on any. If they designate only 200 acres out of the 600, then the remaining 400 acres are free reign to train.