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Can someone explain the concept behind a vocal "angle bacK" and a non vocal "angle back" and how to use them? Thanks
 

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Dang, I hate to go first again today.
My personal experience is that in teaching angle backs you have to first use voice. Then you ultimately want to get to silent casts for angle backs.

But I had one dog, Jack, that did very poorly on silent casts for angle backs. I would use "back" with the angle back cast and he would take it perfectly.

My other big dogs take/took silent angle back casts. I can't explain why Jack was that way.

Generally speaking voice tends to drive the dog deeper.

I have not heard of a prescribed angle back with voice.

Hope this helps.
 

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Many people train/handle differently, but USUALLY, I use a verbal "back" when I want a very fine (almost straight back) change of direction with an almost vertical arm position. If I'm looking for more of a change of direction, I ALMOST always give a silent cast.
 

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I use vocal to change momentum and silent to chage direction.

Examples of the vocal back would be to emphasis the cast of driving a dog off a point, into cover, long water entry, or past an old fall. Voice infliction on the back command will, for my knucklehead, make him remember that we're not running on the option plan.

Also try to never use a vocal command on an "over". Knucklehead only hears a noise and will drive back the majority of the time.
 

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thanks...I have Bill Hillmann's dvd...just guess I could have reviewed it.
Well not exactly. The videos I posted are not on any DVD I know of. These videos are the supposed follow up handling videos to the 'Fetch Command' DVD that he decided to put on his Blog/Youtube Channel instead of a seperate DVD.

If you click on the account of the video uploader maryhill444 , you can see all the video he's put out so far. There's 9 and so far he's covered Angle Backs/ FTP/ Whiste Sit/ Straight back casting and the latest is Single T.
 

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Voice to get out of the area and when I need direction change silent in less its a hail marry. But once again it all depends.
The more you can get with silent casts maybe them vocals will mean more.
 

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In general, voice drives back. This probably isn't nearly as true if you didn't force on back ("Back"-nick-"Back"), during yard work. No voice will tend to get you more direction change. These are general rules. You will sometimes see a handler repeating an over cast with the dog taking an angle back each time. The handler will then give a booming verbal "over" which the dog responds to by digging straight back. Dogs that are commited to a particular direction even after several silent casts (such as getting out of the water early or fading with the wind) will many times dig harder in the same direction with a big verbal "back" with the cast.

Dogs tend to let the wind push them and they tend not to want to cast into the wind. So another use of the verbal cast is to use verbal when casting with the wind (so the dog won't take too much cast), and use silent when casting into the wind (so the dog won't take too little cast).
 

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In general, voice drives back. This probably isn't nearly as true if you didn't force on back ("Back"-nick-"Back"), during yard work. No voice will tend to get you more direction change. These are general rules. You will sometimes see a handler repeating an over cast with the dog taking an angle back each time. The handler will then give a booming verbal "over" which the dog responds to by digging straight back. Dogs that are commited to a particular direction even after several silent casts (such as getting out of the water early or fading with the wind) will many times dig harder in the same direction with a big verbal "back" with the cast.

Dogs tend to let the wind push them and they tend not to want to cast into the wind. So another use of the verbal cast is to use verbal when casting with the wind (so the dog won't take too much cast), and use silent when casting into the wind (so the dog won't take too little cast).
Read captainjack's post again. It's basic casting 101.
 

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In general, voice drives back. This probably isn't nearly as true if you didn't force on back ("Back"-nick-"Back"), during yard work. No voice will tend to get you more direction change. These are general rules. You will sometimes see a handler repeating an over cast with the dog taking an angle back each time. The handler will then give a booming verbal "over" which the dog responds to by digging straight back. Dogs that are commited to a particular direction even after several silent casts (such as getting out of the water early or fading with the wind) will many times dig harder in the same direction with a big verbal "back" with the cast.

Dogs tend to let the wind push them and they tend not to want to cast into the wind. So another use of the verbal cast is to use verbal when casting with the wind (so the dog won't take too much cast), and use silent when casting into the wind (so the dog won't take too little cast).
x2 Good Post
Verbals tend to push the dog back the direction they were already going, where-as silent tends to give a direction change. Making a dog wait it out before the cast, and then giving a silent usually gives the best direction change.
 
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