I agree, I like lively pigeons. I use pigeons all the time with dogs of all ages. I live in a farming community so I use live pigeons as they fly out of barns ( someone inside spooking them) for practicing wing shooting and all forms of retrieving, marks, blinds..... and more frequently....no bird.... I also use live birds for fliers, again "no bird" training is often, and clipped pigeons for marks, live flopping lots of excitement bird training.what you trying to accomplish? anytime i used pigeons (generally with 8-10 week old pups) i want em running and fluttering and trying to fly away!