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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Was a running a triple, the dog smacks the middle and left hand bird,I send fo the long right hand bird thrown right to left. The dog came in looking right at it but goes to the back side of the gun and then pops :x What do i do in this situation.
 

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Try breaking the test down into the middle and left bird as a double, and the right as a single. Run the double first, followed by the single. Do this a couple of times and then try the triple again.

Just something to try. Good luck!!

-Shupe
 

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Don't worry about it... He just got a little lost. Wait him out or have the bird boy help.

Re-visit dirt clod drill..

Angie
 

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I don't like waiting out a pop. I'd blow the come in whistle and give the appropriate over. I'd most likely give a light nick also. If he then hunted the area I'd let him hunt rather than handle right to the bird.

I'd repeat either as singles or as a triple.

My feeling on a pop is that I want them unpopped as quickly as I can.
 

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Young dog help immediately, Q/MH level or higher handle imediately. Repeat mark as a single. Don't do the entire test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When he popped, I paused for about 3 seconds blew the whistle nick and then an over. he never did this before so I hope this was ok. He got the bird, should I re-run the same test tomorrow or just break it down in another area.
 

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I would re-run the test in a different area, don't break it down and see what happens. Keep the "three times" sequence in mind. My old mentors always told me three is the number, three times in a row for anything good, three times in a row and a habit is forming, good and bad. If it doesn't happen again, move on, maybe dog was confused, maybe dog didn't remember, maybe dog thought he was on a blind who knows?!
If it was the first time?
 

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Criquetpas said:
Young dog help immediately, Q/MH level or higher handle imediately. Repeat mark as a single. Don't do the entire test.
I wouldn't repeat immediately,,,, I'd run a blind or 2 first. A immediate repeat is a little tooo easy for a dog at this stage..

Angie
 

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Criquetpas said:
Young dog help immediately, Q/MH level or higher handle imediately. Repeat mark as a single. Don't do the entire test.
I wouldn't handle....

Angie
 

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Angie B said:
Criquetpas said:
Young dog help immediately, Q/MH level or higher handle imediately. Repeat mark as a single. Don't do the entire test.
I wouldn't repeat immediately,,,, I'd run a blind or 2 first. A immediate repeat is a little tooo easy for a dog at this stage..

Angie
My first response was from not enough information. Dog was a handling dog so in principal I agree do something else, in between, hand thrown double maybe or emergency blind, switch from mark to blind mode then back again. Trouble with the forum is too little information sometimes thats why I have some PM me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The mark was on winger station, If it was a person I would of asked for help. I just hope this doesnt become a problem. I think he just didnt mark it well enough, got to the area but gave up by popping, thats my concern. I dont want him looking for me to help him.
 

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Anthony Petrozza said:
The mark was on winger station, If it was a person I would of asked for help. I just hope this doesnt become a problem. I think he just didnt mark it well enough, got to the area but gave up by popping, thats my concern. I dont want him looking for me to help him.
Let that be a lesson... Depending on the set-up and the factors involved... machines, wingers stink!!!! Experience dictates when artificial throwers would be appropriate.... A very tough call.

Chances are that if a person threw that mark you'd be O.K.

Angie
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I know Angie, I had 2 live people at the other stations. No one wants to come throw birds in 20 degree weather anymore :evil:

Struggling amateur regards,
Anthony
 

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Anthony Petrozza said:
I know Angie, I had 2 live people at the other stations. No one wants to come throw birds in 20 degree weather anymore :evil:

Struggling amateur regards,
Anthony
I hear ya.... We use BB machines all the time... Key birds get "real" throwers and the BB machine stations get birds that are planted at the fall area.. That is until the fire ants are back... :D

I have to be very careful where I put the machines in the set-up.... For the very problems you ran into...

Angie
 

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Angie B said:
...Let that be a lesson... Depending on the set-up and the factors involved... machines, wingers stink!!!! Experience dictates when artificial throwers would be appropriate.... A very tough call.

Chances are that if a person threw that mark you'd be O.K.

Angie
I agree. If you don't have birdboys, then try to use the mechanical throwers on the perceived easiest mark, like a short go-bird.

As for the popping, blowing a whistle & handling seems to me like the worse thing to do. I'm thinking that only confirms to the dog it's OK to pop & that the dog will get the info he wants by popping. I'd ignore the dog for some time hoping he would resume his hunt, launch another bird if possible or use the sound mechanism on the control to encourage the dog to the AOF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That's what I have to do, put the wingers in the easier marks. Seems so simple now. I will work on it!!!!! Thanks... What was great about the day was that my dad came with me for the first time ever training. He was a great thrower. It funny hearing an Italian man with an accent go hey hey hey. LOLOLOLOL. I thought someone was going to get wacked :lol:

 

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It funny hearing an Italian man with an accent go hey hey hey. LOLOLOLOL. I thought someone was going to get wacked :lol:
Or have the "Boys from Buffalo" coming wheeling in....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Make your machine/wingers the set-up or easy "go to" bird.....

Angie
 

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A pop on the way would in most cases get a force, but a pop in or near the AOF would get no intervention at all from me.

It's a confidence issue after all, and help by way of any kind of intervention does little to build confidence.

Let the dog figure it out, that's how they learn :wink:

john
 

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Just got in from the frozen tundra TRAINING. Hope to get out of here in about two weeks for a month in the warm, rainy South. Anyway lots more information here now. Winger and mechanical throwers are good until you start to do the hard multiples. The Max's work good as you shoot the bumpers on the way as the dog runs UNTIL the young guy figures OH! it comes from there I will just stop and watch it come out. Wingers are good for shooting flyers out of, wipe outs, and poor man doubles providing you have a warm body out there to walk to the winger and help the dog.

We use the mechnical throwers about 20% of the time and have live bodies about 80% of the time , using one for a Quad or maybe ABC drills.

Here is what we have learned over the years (Angies and others touched on this too) You have to be very careful on your set-ups. The dog has to be conditioned to certain aspects of your set-ups. Sometimes we will put a Max or a Winger out with stick men or one of my partners "Stuffed scarecrow men, hats and all" . If we are short handed with live throwers or have many dogs to run, a single designated handler goes out, someone in the group runs his/her dogs. You can do a long set up and even retire a gun using the wingers. It can be equal distance such as a fountain, one thrown one way the other thrown the other way with about 30 yards between them. You can use it as a delay, live body throws first, short go bird is picked up, winger goes off for the delay, dog gets winger,
handler walks back to the original station on memory bird and retires or stand up, they are there to help also. You have to be very creative with limited help. (an ATV speeds it up too)

On the pops with a winger and it has happened a few times with different dogs where a "screwup" is made on the order. If the dog pops we just walk towards the station and tell the dog to hunt it up. We continue to walk until if we have to, throw the bird up in the air, dog sees bird. Dog doesn't get bird. Dog is shown bird, handlers walks back to the line and sends dog to the marked bird. 99% of the time the dog lines bird and picks it up. We then send a live body from one of the other stations to the winger and repeat the mark. ALL wingers are 90 degree flat throws so there is no running at the stickmen. The same when a Max or bumperboy is used, flat throws, away from the machine takes away the tendency to run at the machine or stickman. We use the live bodies for the control throws, angles bird placement etc.

Sorry I didn't read your post carefully, gave too easy an answer.
 
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