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I saw in the retriever news, news letter a question asked that i feel has an incorrect answer provided. Now i am not looking to say i am right or wrong as we all know the rule book is designed to be used for peoples interpretations. My thoughts are this DOES meet the requirements of the honor as this is considered a marking test since there are thrown marks which will be picked up.()assuming they are picking up the marks after the blind) This is something i feel is spelt out pretty clearly in the rule book but again always some grey area. Thoughts?

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My thoughts are this DOES meet the requirements of the honor as this is considered a marking test since there are thrown marks which will be picked up.()assuming they are picking up the marks after the blind)
I agree.
I suppose an argument against it, however weak, would be that the blind and marks are two separate series. Since the working dog is sent for the blind it is not part of the marking series. Like I said, a week argument, marks have been thrown and the working dog has been sent.
I think we would all agree that if the honor dog breaks when the working dog is sent on a blind it is a failed honor.
 

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I think a better question for Field Trial News would be "Is this a Crappy set up and Bad Mechanics?".

1) Honor dog has to sit there as working dog is "No Birded" off of marks and continue to honor as working dog is handled to blind.
2) You have two handlers in White on the line. Distraction to the working dog?
3) What if working dog fails blind or picks up on blind? Does honor dog have to sit through another set of marks and a blind?

As was drilled into me on my first judging assignment "If you drove 6 hours to be at this trial would you want to run this set up?" Answer would be "Hell No!"
 

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Page 28.

5. Judges shall in their discretion determine the number of dogs that shall be worked or kept on line simultaneously. In at least one test involving the retrieve of a marked fall in all stakes, except Derby, every dog shall be kept on line off leash while another dog works. If a dog has failed the test and is asked to remain on line to honor the work of the next running dog, the Judges
may direct that the dog honor on lead or off lead as they
deem appropriate.
 

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2) You have two handlers in White on the line. Distraction to the working dog?
3) What if working dog fails blind or picks up on blind? Does honor dog have to sit through another set of marks and a blind?
It may well be a crappy test but the judges could instruct the honoring handler to remove his white and the honor dog can be dismissed immediately after the working dog is sent.

It just occurred to me that this is about a serious a rule violation as wearing tan shorts at an HRC Hunt test.
 

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Page 28.

5. Judges shall in their discretion determine the number of dogs that shall be worked or kept on line simultaneously. In at least one test involving the retrieve of a marked fall in all stakes, except Derby, every dog shall be kept on line off leash while another dog works. If a dog has failed the test and is asked to remain on line to honor the work of the next running dog, the Judges
may direct that the dog honor on lead or off lead as they
deem appropriate.
It took me a couple of scans through to find this language. I disagree that the honor must be to a marked retrieve, the fact that marks were thrown and the honor dog has to honor another dog being sent to retrieve fulfills the honor. In my opinion it is a poor way to honor, as previously pointed out the amount of time spent lining the working dog is quite variable which exposes some dogs to a longer time honoring before being released. The argument can also be made that the honor dog is less likely to break due to the actions of the working dog and it’s handler. It’s legal but I don’t like it.
 

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It took me a couple of scans through to find this language. I disagree that the honor must be to a marked retrieve, the fact that marks were thrown and the honor dog has to honor another dog being sent to retrieve fulfills the honor. In my opinion it is a poor way to honor, as previously pointed out the amount of time spent lining the working dog is quite variable which exposes some dogs to a longer time honoring before being released. The argument can also be made that the honor dog is less likely to break due to the actions of the working dog and it’s handler. It’s legal but I don’t like it.
I disagree, to me the verbiage from The Book is black and white.
 

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This really shouldn't even be a discussion guys. The rulebook is very clear "the retrieve of a marked fall". Not "a retrieve". A "retrieve of marked fall"
Clear as mud, the rule only states that the retrieve of a marked fall occurs not when it occurs. I will guarantee that the language never assumed a combination test where a blind is retrieved first.
 

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Clear as mud, the rule only states that the retrieve of a marked fall occurs not when it occurs. I will guarantee that the language never assumed a combination test where a blind is retrieved first.
I also think nothing about that test is in the spirit of honoring in a hunting situation. The roots of the game.
 

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I also think nothing about that test is in the spirit of honoring in a hunting situation. The roots of the game.
If you were hunting with me the test would be "Hey Darren, can your dog get that one that sailed off? Me and Chupa are going to get these two in the decoys. Be quick about it! We got birds coming!!!!"
 

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As described in the Standard, the 2 birds thrown in such a test are not marks. They are diversion birds.
Paragraph 20 0n page 32.
Diversion birds are not retrieved they are poison birds. Marked birds thrown and retrieved are marks. In this situation this is a marking test combined with a blind retrieve. The Diversonary bird was a Pete Simonds thing but as stated the diversion bird is thrown as a diversion for a blind.
“Diversion Bird: A diversionary bird or birds, (but not more than two) may be used as a diversion in a blind retrieve, but only if the diversionary bird (or birds) is/ are thrown or shot so that the running dog has a clear view of each such diversionary bird as it is thrown.”
 
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If you were hunting with me the test would be "Hey Darren, can your dog get that one that sailed off? Me and Chupa are going to get these two in the decoys. Be quick about it! We got birds coming!!!!"
Bully, you’re getting the easy ones and making the kid get the hard one. 😉😄
 

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Diversion birds are not retrieved they are poison birds. Marked birds thrown and retrieved are marks. In this situation this is a marking test combined with a blind retrieve. The Diversonary bird was a Pete Simonds thing but as stated the diversion bird is thrown as a diversion for a blind.
“Diversion Bird: A diversionary bird or birds, (but not more than two) may be used as a diversion in a blind retrieve, but only if the diversionary bird (or birds) is/ are thrown or shot so that the running dog has a clear view of each such diversionary bird as it is thrown.”
So are you of the belief that since they are marks, and not diversion birds, this test could be extended to a triple or quad and not run afoul of the diversion bird rule?
 

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In at least one test involving the retrieve of a marked fall in all stakes, except Derby, every dog shall be kept on line off leash while another dog works.
There are marked falls in the test.
One dog is off leash honoring.
One dog is working.
I would not set it up but it does fulfill the requirement of the honor.
 

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So are you of the belief that since they are marks, and not diversion birds, this test could be extended to a triple or quad and not run afoul of the diversion bird rule?
You are commingling marking and the Diversion bird on a blind paragraph. The rule was never intended to preclude an interrupted test hence the addition of you can only throw two marks before doing a blind, not three. There are many references to marking in Field Trial Rules and only one Diversion bird paragraph.
 
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