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So are you of the belief that since they are marks, and not diversion birds, this test could be extended to a triple or quad and not run afoul of the diversion bird rule?
Diversion birds are marks And yes it could be extended to a triple or a quad after the blind is picked up. Interested to see if Ed agrees.
 

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Diversion birds are marks And yes it could be extended to a triple or a quad after the blind is picked up. Interested to see if Ed agrees.
You’re talking semantics now, if you throw a bird and the dog sees it and ultimately retrieves it it’s a mark and should be judged accordingly. As I stated the diversion bird thing was adopted because a certain person with great power did not like combing marks and blinds in the same setup. It is long established precedent, a test I have often done with very large all age stake entries for 25 years. Paul obviously does not like the test and I’m ok with that, if you don’t like it don’t set it up but the fact that you don’t like it does not make it illegitimate.
Where’s that beating a dead horse emoji
Water Smile Art Working animal Sitting
 

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You’re talking semantics now,
I suppose so but can’t that be said of the entire discussion?
The honoring dog sat and watched marks fall and another dog sent from the line. The honor dog doesn’t know which bird the working dog is being sent for. How is that not an honor?

Not my kind of test either but what if it’s Sunday morning, you need a water blind, a marking test and an honor with 20 dogs And severe storms are moving in about noon?
 
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I suppose so but can’t that be said of the entire discussion?
The honoring dog sat and watched marks fall and another dog sent from the line. The honor dog doesn’t know which bird the working dog is being sent for. How is that not an honor?

Not my kind of test either but what if it’s Sunday morning, you need a water blind, a marking test and an honor with 20 dogs And severe storms are moving in about noon?
You’ll get no disagreement from me, sometimes you have to do what you have to do
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
As described in the Standard, the 2 birds thrown in such a test are not marks. They are diversion birds.
Paragraph 20 0n page 32.
paul, notice i put in there that birds were being picked up, not diversions
 

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sometimes you have to do what you have to do
I find it interesting that some go to a section of the book & will beat it like a dead horse.

The rule book also encourages a variety of judges putting tests on that one might see in
an ordinary day's shoot. It also encourages variety in the types of tests offered. Those tests
are for the well prepared. We rarely see those judges as the rule book legislated them out
of existence.
 

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.... Sunday morning, you need a water blind, a marking test and an honor with 20 dogs And severe storms are moving in about noon?
Wouldn't a marking setup with honor dog released after go bird send and a blind retrieve by invitation after the last bird delivered get you on the road by lunch? It's the same tasks in a different presentation.
 

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Wouldn't a marking setup with honor dog released after go bird send and a blind retrieve by invitation after the last bird delivered get you on the road by lunch? It's the same tasks in a different presentation.
That depends if you are a selective green head shooter or you shoot anything that works the decoys except coots….oh sorry, that was for the conditions met in an ordinary day’s shoot thread
 

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Wouldn't a marking setup with honor dog released after go bird send and a blind retrieve by invitation after the last bird delivered get you on the road by lunch? It's the same tasks in a different presentation.
It would but running the blind first makes for a more challenging double in most cases.

Also running a blind by invitation is a tough call as the judges have to make a quick decision on whether the dog is carried or not without being able to compare to the field.
 

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If you were hunting with me the test would be "Hey Darren, can your dog get that one that sailed off? Me and Chupa are going to get these two in the decoys. Be quick about it! We got birds coming!!!!"
Well for the sake of argument if you were hunting with me and there were two Widgeons belly up in the decoys and a banded Pintail Drake fell hard at 150 yards but when you stood up it was moving, which one you gonna send for? You’re lining up for a blind on that Pintail and letting Daren have the Widgeons.😉
 

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It would but running the blind first makes for a more challenging double in most cases.
A feller up here was notorious for having the line to his blind skirt past a couple feet away from the gunner and his crate of birds. 'Twas always interesting sitting in my chair watching the dogs run straight at me, or not!
"They" may have named the setup after him in conversation when others would do it.
 

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Diversion birds are marks And yes it could be extended to a triple or a quad after the blind is picked up. Interested to see if Ed agrees.
Not all diversionary birds are mark. what constitutes a mark is a bird thrown that the dog views from a specific spot and makes that retrieve from the same spot it viewed the bird from. A bull dog is not a mark because the dog viewed it from a different spot in the field which changes the dogs orientation
Pete
 

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Not all diversionary birds are mark. what constitutes a mark is a bird thrown that the dog views from a specific spot and makes that retrieve from the same spot it viewed the bird from. A bull dog is not a mark because the dog viewed it from a different spot in the field which changes the dogs orientation
Pete
I define a mark as any bird or bumper thrown within the view of a working retriever. If it is a "poison mark/bird", the dog is not supposed to retrieve it. "Diversion mark", the dog has to run a blind first and then retrieve it.
If a retriever watches a thrown bird (or should be watching it), it's a mark. JMO
 

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Not all diversionary birds are mark. what constitutes a mark is a bird thrown that the dog views from a specific spot and makes that retrieve from the same spot it viewed the bird from. A bull dog is not a mark because the dog viewed it from a different spot in the field which changes the dogs orientation
Pete
I could not disagree more, the viewing perspective doesn’t matter if the principals of marks are followed, guns should be visible and conspicuous, birds should be visible. In practice a bulldog bird is almost always thrown in open water, if the dog hunts for it on land that counts.
 

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In hunt tests, Diversion birds are thrown when the dog is returning to the handler with another mark or blind. Diversion birds are picked up but not scored as a mark. Many handlers handle the dog to the diversion bird.


Not sure if this is the same situation in a trial, but it seems not???
 

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In hunt tests, Diversion birds are thrown when the dog is returning to the handler with another mark or blind. Diversion birds are picked up but not scored as a mark. Many handlers handle the dog to the diversion bird.


Not sure if this is the same situation in a trial, but it seems not???
The original topic was about field trial rules, I know nothing about hunt test rules and it would be inappropriate for me to comment about them.
 
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