shouldnt it be both?
Two sided heeling
If you have a two sided dog. Which side do you heel it on for a mark thrown on your left. Left or right? Why?
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The general rule is: if the mark is thrown to the right, heel on the right. If the mark is thrown to the left, heel on the left. If doing a multiple, set up for the last bird down. Of course this is modified at a test or trial depending on what might yield an advantage.;-)
I use both sides and also do the whole, if bird is thrown to the left, the dog is on the left. If its a multiple, the dog is on the side of the last bird down. I think my dogs really catch on to that and I do the same for blinds.
To answer your question, when a mark is thrown right to left you heel your dog on your left side. If the mark is thrown left to right heel the dog on your right side.If you have a two sided dog. Which side do you heel it on for a mark thrown on your left. Left or right? Why?
After time thru attrition a dog will learn to go to the correct side of the gun. Not an end all to replace good marking but does help.
Two sided heeling also helps with young dogs in trials to block the short gun if the dog gets locked on the short station. When coming out of the holding blind heel your dog to the side that will put you in a position to block the short station.
Also nice to be able to use whichever side (your left or right side) when running blinds to allow for a better line to the blind or to help in push a young dog past suction at the beginning of a blind.
Started off with "single sided" dogs many years ago. The last two have been trained on both sides and it's great when playing the dog games!
Started off with "single sided" dogs many years ago. The last two have been trained on both sides and it's great when playing the dog games!
I have a 5 mo pup I am training to be both sided. It is my first to do so. I see the advantages of this and will continue to do so. Mark left left side mark right right side. Young dog already getting it. Looks like it will help alot.
Which side I put the dog on is dictated by the setup.
This is the way I use to think too! I'm just not real sure that dogs see it the way people think they do when it comes to which side they are running off of. I am like Losthwy, I let the test dictate which side the dog is on. If a flyer is the last bird down and is thrown from left to right, but the rest of the test is on the left side, why would I put the dog on the right?To answer your question, when a mark is thrown right to left you heel your dog on your left side. If the mark is thrown left to right heel the dog on your right side.
After time thru attrition a dog will learn to go to the correct side of the gun. Not an end all to replace good marking but does help.
Two sided heeling also helps with young dogs in trials to block the short gun if the dog gets locked on the short station. When coming out of the holding blind heel your dog to the side that will put you in a position to block the short station.
This weekend I was running a Junior that was extremely "cheaty." About 80 to 90% of the dogs were cheat on both water marks. They both had the dog swimming 50 yards about 6 yards away from the shore the whole way. for the mark on the right I heeled my dog on the left trying to use my body to block of her vision and keep her from being tempted to run the bank. It worked out pretty god for me.
Most young dogs push a lot better than they pull. When running a triple I put my dog on the side of the go-bird. Indented triple with the middle bird the 1st then the right bird then the left bird. I will come to the line walking him straight at the middle bird-sit-mark-signal for birds, let it hit the ground PULL to the right for the 2nd bird, let it hit the ground, then PUSH all the way to the go bird. Use your body to line the dog up, and the gun if your at a HT.
The best spinoff of two-sided dogs:
The gallery and handlers waiting to run debating what side to run what mark from. Constant source of entertainment.
The gallery and handlers waiting to run debating what side to run what mark from. Constant source of entertainment.
All four of my dogs are two-sided. I am not a pro. I'm happy with my dogs' performance. Would they be any better if they were only one-sided? I don't think so.
My pro friend does not train dogs to be two-sided. His dogs do very well. Would his dogs be better if they were two-side? I don't think so.
Most are more effective when they keep within their own comfort zone.
Life is full of choices.
My pro friend does not train dogs to be two-sided. His dogs do very well. Would his dogs be better if they were two-side? I don't think so.
Most are more effective when they keep within their own comfort zone.
Life is full of choices.
I don't know if you are running field trials, but my experience is the opposite. In my experience if I really have to finesse a dog on a fine line to pick out a hard to see gun, pulling works better, pushing is way too coarse. Also typically, (not always), the flyer is the go-bird and is also a huge diversion from the other marks, for that reason I almost always heel my dog opposite the flyer in an attempt to block the flyer. All this of course presumes that you dog is a good team mate, that will work with you and not creep.Most young dogs push a lot better than they pull. When running a triple I put my dog on the side of the go-bird. Indented triple with the middle bird the 1st then the right bird then the left bird. I will come to the line walking him straight at the middle bird-sit-mark-signal for birds, let it hit the ground PULL to the right for the 2nd bird, let it hit the ground, then PUSH all the way to the go bird. Use your body to line the dog up, and the gun if your at a HT.
Like LostWy said, it depends on the setup, but regarding the Lardy premise that after time dogs pick up on which side of the gun a bird is thrown depending on which side you heel on, that hasn't worked very well with my dogs over the years. Maybe on a flat, featureless field, but with all the factors of terrain, water, cover and wind judges take advantage of, the heeling to the side of the throw kind of disappears. I still two side all my dogs for other reasons, but I can't tell you how many times I have heard, "if only I had heeled on the other side, my dog would have done that mark". They still have to mark regardless of what side you heel them on, there is no magic heeling trick that is going to turn a fair marker into an excellent marker. Make sure they see the gun and throw and take your time when lining them up, you may have to switch sides just to get him to see that gun or line up right for the mark.
John
This has been my experience also. I like two sided heeling and do it with all my dogs, but it's no panacea. Which side we run them from has some influence at the beginning and on the line, but the dog still has to mark and run blinds.regarding the Lardy premise that after time dogs pick up on which side of the gun a bird is thrown depending on which side you heel on, that hasn't worked very well with my dogs over the years. Maybe on a flat, featureless field, but with all the factors of terrain, water, cover and wind judges take advantage of, the heeling to the side of the throw kind of disappears.
I have enough difficulty keeping track of what to do with my dog on the left. So although I've taught my dogs to heel on either side, I stick with running them from my left. Maybe someday I'll progress to the point where I can go with 2-sided, but that will be a long way down the line. I'm in the extreme newbie stage.
Where it comes in handy is poison-bird blinds. Poison mark is thrown L-R, heel dog on right. After mark is down, "no bird", and heel dog over to your left side, then prep to run the blind. Moving the dog's entire position relative to the handler makes it that much clearer the mark is not in play.
Where it comes in handy is poison-bird blinds. Poison mark is thrown L-R, heel dog on right. After mark is down, "no bird", and heel dog over to your left side, then prep to run the blind. Moving the dog's entire position relative to the handler makes it that much clearer the mark is not in play.
That makes sense, and it seems like something that I could learn to get a handle on while under pressure!
I know several folks who do that with success. I found that, more often than not, I still need to no the dog off the PB after changing sides. I have good success just backing the dog up a bit and re-focusing on the blind.Where it comes in handy is poison-bird blinds. Poison mark is thrown L-R, heel dog on right. After mark is down, "no bird", and heel dog over to your left side, then prep to run the blind. Moving the dog's entire position relative to the handler makes it that much clearer the mark is not in play.
I was at a lardy clinic this spring and Laura Parrot, one of the handlers at the clinic, had really good discussion with Mike about which side to heel on. This changed my mind about on the right for throws to the right, on the left for throws to the left. It was more about the set up.
Does the set up encourage head swinging? i.e. if the flyer is the left hand bird, thrown to the left, and the last bird down would you place the dog on your left? How likely is your dog to swing to the flyer station either before the 1st bird is thrown or shortly there after? I'd probably place my dog on the right so that I could push the dog back to the middle or right birds and off the flyer, I don't see how I could get them off the flyer any other way.
Also, I read somewhere about the dogs learning the throw is to the side they are heeled on... Something about dogs on Big pro trucks will learn to hunt the side where the grass is trampled down. This is something an Amatuer trainer with a couple of dogs would never learn.
Left is how I do it in HT. Just how I was taught! Since then I have been shown that depending on the setup could be either side.If you have a two sided dog. Which side do you heel it on for a mark thrown on your left. Left or right? Why?
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