My dog is a very good marker her problem is her speed on blinds. It is all most a walk till you give her that first whistle. After that she goes well. We have tried giving her nothing but blinds and that helps some but her marking then falls off. Any body got any ideas that have worked for them. Had this problem for over a year and at trials it gets worse.
very slow on blinds
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Looks like you've really only got 2 options. Go back to a pile scenario and do some forcing or put out shackled birds at the blinds. Take heart, though, as I've seen lots of walking pigs win trials. :roll:
Bird boy drops white bumper and walks 5 to 7 steps away from bumper as if it is a flat throw. Send dog for blind. After dog gets blind bird boy drops another bumper where he is standing and moves 5 to 7 steps. You keep doing this until dog has lined a few. Then move bird boy 50 to 80 yards away and repeat process. You should switch to orange once dog grasps drill. On longer blinds bird boy needs to walk 7 steps. Within a couple of days it is possible to be out to 150 to 200 yards. The Carr/Rorem tapes have a good example of bird boy blinds in them.
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Sometimes you can do all the right steps and a young dog will just not see the fun in blinds. Backing up doesn't necessarily restore fun. So you make adjustments to deal with whatever is out of balance. Not all the adjustments have to be made by the dog.
Try putting five orange bumpers at fifty yards in a fan shape. You might even go out and plant them in full view of the dog (kind of a "poorman" bird boy "stuff"). Throw a fun bumper off to the right (after you have gone back to the line) and act like this is the greatest thing since "sliced bred". Receive the fun bumper and quickly line the enthused dog up. Send and accept whatever line the dog takes because it will certainly be toward one of those orange bumpers. The momentum and drive from the fun bumper carries over to the blinds.
I feel some dogs learn that "dead bird/back" is a nasty cue for bad things are going to happen......inspite of all the good intentions to teach otherwise. Giving the dog a fun bumper off to the side before each blind is designed to get the blind cue back into a positive frame of mind.
You don't have to have the dog pick up all five. Make it fun and focus on reducing any preceived stress. Confidence through success and hightlighted by your enthusiasm can do wonders to alter a young dog's perceptions. If you find training has become a drag, frustrating and/or disappointing, the dog is going to feed off those emotions. The fun bumper is not just for the dog, it seems to have a positive effect on the trainer, too.
Another thing that works quite well is to start using birds for the blinds. One step "higher" (and later) are the use of clipped winged pigeons or shackled ducks.
Try putting five orange bumpers at fifty yards in a fan shape. You might even go out and plant them in full view of the dog (kind of a "poorman" bird boy "stuff"). Throw a fun bumper off to the right (after you have gone back to the line) and act like this is the greatest thing since "sliced bred". Receive the fun bumper and quickly line the enthused dog up. Send and accept whatever line the dog takes because it will certainly be toward one of those orange bumpers. The momentum and drive from the fun bumper carries over to the blinds.
I feel some dogs learn that "dead bird/back" is a nasty cue for bad things are going to happen......inspite of all the good intentions to teach otherwise. Giving the dog a fun bumper off to the side before each blind is designed to get the blind cue back into a positive frame of mind.
You don't have to have the dog pick up all five. Make it fun and focus on reducing any preceived stress. Confidence through success and hightlighted by your enthusiasm can do wonders to alter a young dog's perceptions. If you find training has become a drag, frustrating and/or disappointing, the dog is going to feed off those emotions. The fun bumper is not just for the dog, it seems to have a positive effect on the trainer, too.
Another thing that works quite well is to start using birds for the blinds. One step "higher" (and later) are the use of clipped winged pigeons or shackled ducks.
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MF said:
Sounds like this is what I need to try. How many days do you work on this for?
Thanks Robert
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Just a thought. Where is your whistle when you send ?
If you are inconsistent and put it in your mouth only at times when you intend to stop on the way out, they catch on and antcipate the stop.
If you are inconsistent and put it in your mouth only at times when you intend to stop on the way out, they catch on and antcipate the stop.
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What the heck Mike.......... :lol: :lol: Its an US drill. You have to remember I am Australian......and a wee bit odd. Poison bird blinds are a way of life here, after our Novice standard.
Contra indicated, as some feel, it encourages swapping. I do not agree. Email me, and I will add the relevant link.
Contra indicated, as some feel, it encourages swapping. I do not agree. Email me, and I will add the relevant link.
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Get yourself a birdbox and a few clipped wing pigeons. A great attitude adjustment!
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I have one that was slow on blinds and I think that since she had a habit of not takeing off in a straight line she got used to getting that first whistle pretty quick, after the first cast she was fine.
I fixed by running to marked piles, white bumpers short grass, started short then stretched them out. Then switched to unmarked piles of orange bumpers. This got her running straighter and built up her confidence.
Then followed up with a combination of Bird boy, Zig Zag and Wagoon wheel. All of these drills if run correctly promote the dog to run straight.
I need to note that this is a dog that has been through Force Fetch and Force to the pile.
I am sure that there are other methods but this is what worked for me.
Good luck
Rich
I fixed by running to marked piles, white bumpers short grass, started short then stretched them out. Then switched to unmarked piles of orange bumpers. This got her running straighter and built up her confidence.
Then followed up with a combination of Bird boy, Zig Zag and Wagoon wheel. All of these drills if run correctly promote the dog to run straight.
I need to note that this is a dog that has been through Force Fetch and Force to the pile.
I am sure that there are other methods but this is what worked for me.
Good luck
Rich
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I did BB blinds today and on the first one he was a little unsure and slow, but after the first one he did not turn around or wait for me to help him out. I think he knows what is going on now. Tomorrow and Thursday will work on BB blinds again and hopefully by then he has his drive up. If not might have to do what you said and run to some marked piles and extend them in the future.
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Robert
This may help you with getting your dog happy happy on blinds.
This tip was originally posted by Randy Bohn who is now a professional trainer.
Blinds
We try to "pull" our dogs away from us on blinds rather than "push" them away as in being forced to go. Again attitude is everything, sometimes a dog may seem like they want to go but deep down they're telling you something very different!! We work very hard in trying to give our dogs a great "blind" attitude.
1)We have a bird boy throw 3 bumpers in the air and as the bumpers are in the air the handler says dead bird. The dog is pulled from the line and the gunner retires. Bring the dog back to line cue on dead bird and send the dog. Reason: the dog saw 3 marks being thrown and should be "pulled" out to the area with no problems. Distance 75-100yds.
2) Find a flat featureless field, we're trying to teach a blind attitude nothing else. Before getting the dog out place 3 orange bumpers at a distance no greater than 100yds to start, place them 50 to 75 yds. apart so the dog doesn't try to switch back to the last bumper.
3) Go get the dog and run the first bumper you planted. After receiving the bumper turn 180 degrees from where your line is and now the dog is going to pick up a bird that is released from a bird launcher (we use a Days End launcher) this is where good radio communication is very important. Make sure the gunner is retired, or if the dog seems unsure bring the gunner out for a positive attitude and send. We pop the box when the dog is app. 30 yds. from the launcher on line or within reasonable distance.
4) Receive the bird and slide down to the next bumper and your gunner can also move to the next location. Repeat the bumper/bird sequence for a few days and then use all wing clipped pigeons for your blinds for a couple more days and you should see a very responsive attitude for cold blinds.
5) If everything goes well there is no reason why the dog should not want to do blinds, they get wing clipped birds how bad is that?? Very little collar corrections, remember this is transition and we are building a great attitude for blinds.
6) "Pulling" the dog out on a blind is what we're trying to do in our program not fear us and be pushed away from us.
7) We've done this with almost all of our dogs and it works for us, some people out there have seen our dogs run at trials, some have judged us and I think they could back up my statements that it does work
This may help you with getting your dog happy happy on blinds.
This tip was originally posted by Randy Bohn who is now a professional trainer.
Blinds
We try to "pull" our dogs away from us on blinds rather than "push" them away as in being forced to go. Again attitude is everything, sometimes a dog may seem like they want to go but deep down they're telling you something very different!! We work very hard in trying to give our dogs a great "blind" attitude.
1)We have a bird boy throw 3 bumpers in the air and as the bumpers are in the air the handler says dead bird. The dog is pulled from the line and the gunner retires. Bring the dog back to line cue on dead bird and send the dog. Reason: the dog saw 3 marks being thrown and should be "pulled" out to the area with no problems. Distance 75-100yds.
2) Find a flat featureless field, we're trying to teach a blind attitude nothing else. Before getting the dog out place 3 orange bumpers at a distance no greater than 100yds to start, place them 50 to 75 yds. apart so the dog doesn't try to switch back to the last bumper.
3) Go get the dog and run the first bumper you planted. After receiving the bumper turn 180 degrees from where your line is and now the dog is going to pick up a bird that is released from a bird launcher (we use a Days End launcher) this is where good radio communication is very important. Make sure the gunner is retired, or if the dog seems unsure bring the gunner out for a positive attitude and send. We pop the box when the dog is app. 30 yds. from the launcher on line or within reasonable distance.
4) Receive the bird and slide down to the next bumper and your gunner can also move to the next location. Repeat the bumper/bird sequence for a few days and then use all wing clipped pigeons for your blinds for a couple more days and you should see a very responsive attitude for cold blinds.
5) If everything goes well there is no reason why the dog should not want to do blinds, they get wing clipped birds how bad is that?? Very little collar corrections, remember this is transition and we are building a great attitude for blinds.
6) "Pulling" the dog out on a blind is what we're trying to do in our program not fear us and be pushed away from us.
7) We've done this with almost all of our dogs and it works for us, some people out there have seen our dogs run at trials, some have judged us and I think they could back up my statements that it does work
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