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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On another thread which got pretty snarky there were some comments that either stated that the handler was out of line for video recording his dog running the test (he had a camera in his glasses, he wasn't actually trying to handle a video camera while simultaneously handling his dog, which would be impractical and dumb) or implied that it was against the rules. However, nobody ever cited the rule or rules against this.

I have often had others video my dog running. Not so I could lynch a judge (don't think I ever posted a video good or bad), but so I could learn from it and so I could have a record of my dog running (hopefully well) because in the end all we have left of these dogs is our memories. I think it is good to look at your dog's run because as most of you know if you think you blew the whistle 3 times you probably blew it 5 and you always notice things you didn't remember.

Anyway, I want to hear why it was or may have been against the rules for the handler to record the test.

Some asked if he had the judges permission. I have never read where that is necessary.

Some seemed to imply that there was a difference (in terms of rules violation or sportsmanship) in having someone video your run for you or doing it yourself with the super cool video glasses. Can you please show me where?

The only thing I can see that the guy did "wrong" or possibly should have had permission for was that his video apparently showed one of the judges faces (because the handler looked at the judge, so his glasses camera was "aimed" at the judge at that moment) and then posted it on the internet. So what I'm saying is that I can buy that he should have edited out the judges face or the few frames where his face was shown before posting it, but other than that, just in terms of the video recording and not in terms of posting it on the internet, I would like someone to tell me where it says in the rule book that it is not permissible.

I have not been fortunate to handle my dog in a hunt test for a couple of years, but the next time I do there will almost certainly be a video camera involved (if I can get someone to video for me) so I'd like to know if I'm violating rules or if these other posters were just making junk up when they implied that he needed the judges permission to record or that there was some issue with having the recording device at the line as opposed to the gallery.

Thanks in advance.
 

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I certainly did not intend to be an ass by my comments! Now you ask a great question, possibly a POLE on what people think, should there be a rule? For some reason I see problems with recording a test then using it as a topic for discussion, could become problematic. Thus maybe a AKC rule adjustment defining the use of recording devices while running should be in place? Those were just some thoughts I had on the subject. I do not feel the OP was intended on placing blame on judges, but it did in a way. The bad side of the internet again....

I think video taping how your dog works while handling is a good thing, but do it in training and not at a test.

I'm no judge, but I suspect if video becomes a standard at the line, then brought to a public forum for debate, over time the list of available judges is going to get very short indeed. Sorry for the run-on sentence!

If there is a concern over poor judging, that should be between the handler and the judges, and the AKC to work out. Just my opinion, I do love the electronic's for watching and replaying the things our dogs do, but instant replay in hunt tests is a bit much! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I certainly did not intend to be an ass by my comments!
Byron, you were not an ass. Nobody was on the topic of recording but some implied that it was against the rules or against the rules without permission of the judges or against the rules if done at the line, but not in the gallery. I want to see where the rulebook says any of that.

Now you ask a great question, possibly a POLE on what people think, should there be a rule?
I do not care whether people think there SHOULD be a rule. I only care about whether such a rule exists and what exactly that rule says.


For some reason I see problems with recording a test then using it as a topic for discussion, could become problematic. Thus maybe a AKC rule adjustment defining the use of recording devices while running should be in place? Those were just some thoughts I had on the subject. I do not feel the OP was intended on placing blame on judges, but it did in a way. The bad side of the internet again....
It can certainly be problematic. It could also be constructive. There is a fine line. My concern in this thread is whether it is legal to record, record from the line or just the gallery and whether permission is needed from the judges. I have never seen any of this in the rulebook and therefore believe that it is not illegal and that judges permission to record is not needed (again, not addressing the actual posting on the internet, which is different).
 

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That's what we need,another rule.I would say that as long as the video is used for personal use for memories or for future training,then let it ride.When it starts being used as instant replay to question a judges opinion then its time to put a stop to it.This game we all play is full of subjective calls.Sometimes in our favor sometimes not.
 

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I love watching the videos of my hunt tests, especially when I do more dumb stuff than my dog. I paid for the test, I should be able to tape it.

Now, to use it against the judge is another issue. We have all had those test that just don't go our way for one reason or another. That's what makes us train harder so the judge has no excuse what so over. We get better dogs for it too.

Just for the heck of it, I would love to strap one of those GoPro cameras on the head of my dog, just to see what he sees. That would be cool!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That's what we need,another rule.I would say that as long as the video is used for personal use for memories or for future training,then let it ride.When it starts being used as instant replay to question a judges opinion then its time to put a stop to it.This game we all play is full of subjective calls.Sometimes in our favor sometimes not.
I'm not asking if there SHOULD be a rule. I'm asking if there IS a rule because some clearly implied that there IS a rule, which I think is incorrect.
 

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I'm not asking if there SHOULD be a rule. I'm asking if there IS a rule because some clearly implied that there IS a rule, which I think is incorrect.
I do not know if there is a "written rule" regarding videotaping from the handler at the line, however, I do feel there may be an unwritten rule regarding what is allowed to happen at the line, at the judges discretion.

My reasoning behind this is because the judges are responsible for everything that goes on AT THE LINE. This includes interference of the running dog. What happens if a dog from outside the test interferes with the test. That dog is eliminated.

Whenever you have someone take a video for you from the gallery, don't they always ask the judge where a permissible place to stand is so that they do not interfere with the test? Or maybe a judge directs them to an acceptable place.

For this hypothetical, what does a judge do if the equipment malfunctions while the dog is at the line, or on the honor bucket, causing either dog to an eliminating fault, and the judge did not know this equipment was going to be on the line? How will the judges handle this situation? Why would anyone want to put the judges in this situation?

I personally like the video taping aspect of hunt tests. Until I got to Master level, I taped every single test I ran with my pup. The only reason I stopped is because I feel that Master requires more of my attention to the dog and team, rather than trying to find someone to video my test, but that is a different discussion, and was not asked by you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I do not know if there is a "written rule" regarding videotaping from the handler at the line, however, I do feel there may be an unwritten rule regarding what is allowed to happen at the line, at the judges discretion.

My reasoning behind this is because the judges are responsible for everything that goes on AT THE LINE. This includes interference of the running dog. What happens if a dog from outside the test interferes with the test. That dog is eliminated.

Whenever you have someone take a video for you from the gallery, don't they always ask the judge where a permissible place to stand is so that they do not interfere with the test? Or maybe a judge directs them to an acceptable place.

For this hypothetical, what does a judge do if the equipment malfunctions while the dog is at the line, or on the honor bucket, causing either dog to an eliminating fault, and the judge did not know this equipment was going to be on the line? How will the judges handle this situation? Why would anyone want to put the judges in this situation?

I personally like the video taping aspect of hunt tests. Until I got to Master level, I taped every single test I ran with my pup. The only reason I stopped is because I feel that Master requires more of my attention to the dog and team, rather than trying to find someone to video my test, but that is a different discussion, and was not asked by you.
Interesting perspective and I see your logic. I do agree that the judges have a great deal of control over what goes on at the line and when and how. However with this particular device I do not see how it could cause a distraction or interference. It does not make any noise and if it suddenly malfunctioned it would simply stop recording and the handler would not know it until later when he/she reviewed and found they did not record all of the action.

I don't know if I've ever asked permission on where to have someone stand to record. What I mean is I can't remember ever having someone record from a position that has not already been designated by the judges as the location of the gallery. You know, they usually say to stay behind a certain spot, etc. I cannot recall asking permission because I don't think I have had someone position themselves closer than what has already been designated as OK for the gallery. If I were to want someone closer in order to record then I would certainly clear that with the judges/marshal.
 

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If this were an issue then the clubs that hire(or allow) photographers would also be called into question (who then sell the photos online,judges,dogs,handlers included). They have never had my permission, and when the loud clicking camera is going off I could complain for a rerun, or copyrighting a photo of me and my dog(that is a whole other issue though). It's 2012 there is a camera everywhere, just look at every scandal that has a video nowadays.
 

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I have recorded tests before, never with sunglass cameras. One test in particular the dog failed due to a break on the walk up. Handler thought one ting happened, when cooler heads prevailed the evidence of what actually happened was there for us to examine and deal with in training. I like having training sessions on video because I can evaluate what I am doing better. The way I use my video, taping a test would be beneficial. You know how I remember giving a strong right angle back that the dog didn't take, on video in actuality I gave a slight angle at best and the dog actually took my cast.

That being said, I doubt I would ever post disrespectful footage on the net.
 

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Would have never thought it to be an issue!!!! Have recorded most of our runs!! Different view.... I can see what happens at the line as the marks are going off..
 

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The updated rule book is online or you can purchase it from AKC for a nominal fee.

Angie
 

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The updated rule book is online or you can purchase it from AKC for a nominal fee.

Angie
Or you can download it for free...
 

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I wonder if the one-party and two-party consent rules come into video recording as they do in audio recording. Anyone know?

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yupper,,, I know it is harder for some to do their own leg work but sometimes they just have to.

Angie
I know where to get a rulebook if mine is not the latest edition. If someone states or implies that something is against the rules then I think it should be on them to show where that is stated in the rules. I'm not wasting my time looking for something I'm pretty certain is NOT THERE.
 

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I know where to get a rulebook if mine is not the latest edition. If someone states or implies that something is against the rules then I think it should be on them to show where that is stated in the rules. I'm not wasting my time looking for something I'm pretty certain is NOT THERE.
Well there ya go... If you know along with everyone else,,, why ask the question???

I was pm'd that there was a rule change. Do I know that for a fact? No,,, nor do I care.

If it's that important to you look it up. It's not to me.

Angie
 
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