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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Background: 4 month's old,Sire is Cosmo and Dam is a Lean Mac bitch(so I knew I was going to have some noise issues).Her retrieve desire is second to none.Love's bumper's,clipped winged pidgeon's and anything you will throw for her.
When ever something is thrown for her she lose's her mind.As soon as the bumper come's out she will scream and flop around like a freshly caught mullet.I have tried sending another dog for the bumper when she get's vocal.I will give her a "no,quiet" and a light chin chuck and she just blow's it off.
What are some things that I can try with her to quiet her down?

Thanks,
Jason
 

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lilhank said:
Background: 4 month's old,Sire is Cosmo and Dam is a Lean Mac bitch(so I knew I was going to have some noise issues).Her retrieve desire is second to none.Love's bumper's,clipped winged pidgeon's and anything you will throw for her.
When ever something is thrown for her she lose's her mind.As soon as the bumper come's out she will scream and flop around like a freshly caught mullet.I have tried sending another dog for the bumper when she get's vocal.I will give her a "no,quiet" and a light chin chuck and she just blow's it off.
What are some things that I can try with her to quiet her down?

Thanks,
Jason
Sounds like you need...



/Paul
 

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I can't believe that in this day and age that people are not striving to weed these traits out of breeding programs. I would never own a dog like some I have witnessed, must be a real PIA
 

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Jason,

Not to poke at ya but...... if you knew what you were getting, you might should have explored how to deal with it when you got it ?

1st call I would make would be to the breeder. They should have a good idea of how to handle the pups they put out ??

Other wise search for noise here and there are VOLUMES of suggestions.

Welcom to the rodeo. :twisted:

John
________
ZR engine
 

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Noise

First thing you need to do is take her out of the field and not throw bumpers, birds or anything else. Each time she is allowed to be vocal it makes the problem much harder to correct. Don't have her around dogs that are retrieving which causes her to bark. Start her on obedience, wait till she is old enough to start hold then go on to ff. Make any noise correction in training.
 

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.

my .02 take her out and tie her out or just make her sit and watch other run or throw a mark for her and when she whines tell her no quiet and put her up with no retrieve.It may not be right but know others who have tried it.It is a Cosmo pups also,What did you expect?Just about everytme someone post vocal issue he is closely related.Not to take anything away from him because even knowing hat I would love to have one of his offspring.
 

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Re: Noise

Kim Moses said:
First thing you need to do is take her out of the field and not throw bumpers, birds or anything else. Each time she is allowed to be vocal it makes the problem much harder to correct. Don't have her around dogs that are retrieving which causes her to bark. Start her on obedience, wait till she is old enough to start hold then go on to ff. Make any noise correction in training.
Jason, this is some great advice.

I know you want to throw marks but it may not be in your pup's best interest right now to be throwing a lot of marks. Some dogs are more predisposed to vocal issues but I think the big majority of vocal problems are trainer created. At four months of age, high desire pups will get vocal if you try and restrain them too long on marks. Back up, slow down and takes Kim's advice.

Later, when you do throw a mark, help her by handling her properly. Arch of your foot over the base of her tail, hold her sitting erect by holding her dummy collar and release her when the bumper is at the apex of the toss. This will stop all the wiggling and help her mark better. It is the restraining of the pup that is causing her to be vocal. She has a high desire to retrieve so do what Kim said and back off the retrieving for right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the suggestions.
DRAKEHAVEN(John)I wanted a high powered dog this time so this is the breeding I chose.I will have to work this problem out.Rode's can be fun,looking forward to the ride :twisted: Thanks John.

Kim and Mr.Frank I do not let my pup around or insight of my other dog while she is getting marks.My pup,(Colt),will only maybe get 2 retrievs a day.I do get what you all are saying.We work on obedience every day and for a job well done I will shoot a mark or 2 for her.If you stop all retrieves how can you get a correction for a vocal pup?I will back off of mark's for a while and see what happen's.

THANKS,
Jason
 

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lilhank said:
If you stop all retrieves how can you get a correction for a vocal pup?

THANKS,
Jason
The question to yourself should not he "how" but "why". If the pup have become vocal, address the "why" first.

Side note on Cosmo, I've seen a bunch of Cosmo offspring and have yet to meet the first one that was vocal! I think he gets a bad rap on this one. Remember, most vocal issues are trainer caused and it takes two animals to make a litter. Some pups are more predisposed to vocal issues, but I could name a dozen sires who have had vocal pups. Doesn't mean that the sire is responsible for that issue.

IMHO, the hotter the pup, the more you have to be aware of the fact that there could be a vocal issue. Pups with average desire, it is not so much of an issue.

MOST VOCAL ISSUES ARE TRAINER CREATED.
 

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Side note on Cosmo, I've seen a bunch of Cosmo offspring and have yet to meet the first one that was vocal! I think he gets a bad rap on this one. Remember, most vocal issues are trainer caused and it takes two animals to make a litter. Some pups are more predisposed to vocal issues, but I could name a dozen sires who have had vocal pups. Doesn't mean that the sire is responsible for that issue.
Blahhahahahaha,,,, now that's funny!.. The vast majority of dogs that I've been around out of Cosmo are very noisey and very animated on line. When people ask who these dogs are out of in training we say "Dare to Scream".... :lol: :lol:
IMHO, the hotter the pup, the more you have to be aware of the fact that there could be a vocal issue. Pups with average desire, it is not so much of an issue.
True!

MOST VOCAL ISSUES ARE TRAINER CREATED.
Disagree with ya there Frank!! Big time. These dogs come to us with some pretty strong pre-dispositions. It's up to the trainer to enhance or to downplay and managed those natural tendencies of the dog.

Dogs don't lie. They come to the mat with what they have. If their vocal from the get go it's up to us as trainers to 1. Make the dog aware of it's behavior and 2. extinguish or enhance that behavior.

Vocalizing is like any other line issue. They're all rolled into one package. I discipline the puppies from the get go. A muzzle slap with a quiet command. I'm on it fast. They get put on the truck and run like anyother dog. If they're noisey in the truck, chain gang or on the mat they are physically corrected for it. I also wouldn't let a 4 month old have a retrieve until they were quiet. Put the puppy on a long check cord. If they should start to be vocal on the way out, yank the dog back, slap the muzzle and start again.

As the dog gets older, noise may resurface while marks go down or on the send. I try to then to challenge the dog with it's field work. Nothing over the top of it's head, but I might shoot a double then run a blind. Or shoot a delayed triple. Or shoot the marks and heel back to the holding blind. I mix it up so the dog has to stay in my pocket and be compliant. The vocalizing usually goes away with a constant dose of this type of training.

Angie
 

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There you go Jason, more great advice. Talk with Angie, with Randy and bring that pup on out to the spillway this weekend. I'll be at the Am but we can go to a remote area and take a look at her.
 

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Jason,,,

Chances are your going to need help with your dog. You have a real "tiger by the tail". You'll have to be very proactive and have exeedingly high standards or she will eat your lunch. At least if she pans out like her pedigree indicates.

Not to scare ya but don't show up to train her half prepared! :wink:

Angie
 

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Jason, A lot of this advise sounds familiar huh? :wink: I'll give you $10 for her. Good luck this weekend. Give me a call Mon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
PM back Ken
Thanks Brian,it does sound familiar.I'll have to get atleast a $100 and a can of snuff :) .

Mr.Frank I will be in Petal this weekend running Cricket in a hunt test.I will be at the Spillway next weekend to train with Cricket.

Thanks,Angie.I will lay off of marks for awhile.When we resume and she gets vocal as the birds go down should she get a muzzle rap and back in the truck.noise=no mark?
Thanks
Jason

Brian check your PM's
 

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I suppose we all like to see excellent enthusiasm in our dogs.

While reading various US forums during the years, from time to time I have shaken my head, in dismay, with the sometimes, with what I considered, lower standards related to young dogs, under 6 months. Most of the rationale being that with youngsters, you can take IT out of them so easily, and with your field trial requirements, I do see some merit in this chain of thought. My word.........your water quads!!!!

All the same, vocalising is a pain. A classic behaviour response, which will can become a habit, and as all the canine behaviour experts agree, classical responses will more often than not, overide conditioned/trained responses later.

Is this pup vocal at any other time, in the truck, in the house, in the kennel, while out and about? The poster mentioned birdS, not bird, is this dog been rewarded for noise. As others have mentioned, take every opportunity to work on this problem. One step to build a staircase, type of thingo LOL.
 

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I agree with Angie had a noisy one and started to get on her for ALL noise, barking, crate, retrieving at three months old. She is now 14 months has not made a peep on the retrieve, YET, and will start her Derby career shortly. Learned a "big lesson" years ago with a Juvenile Deliquent out of "ABE" (Webshire's Honest Abe), didn't deal with it until the Derby List. It stayed with him all his life. Most of these dogs are high powered magnificent markers, fearless, tons of drive, BUT, it all starts on the line with control! It will test your patience and some will say it isn't worth it, but, if he is a great dog (marker, straight lines) it might be worth it, stay with it!!
 

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Thanks,Angie.I will lay off of marks for awhile.When we resume and she gets vocal as the birds go down should she get a muzzle rap and back in the truck.noise=no mark?
Thanks
Jason
Personally I wouldn't lay off marks. Why waste the opportunity to break the habit NOW??

I don't adhere to the back in the truck thing. Not with a dog this young anyway. No reason for it and she won't remember or know why she was put up in the first place. Just a good firm muzzle wrap while shes on the mat. Maybe even a scruff shake or lip pinch. Whatever it takes to change her behavior. Don't be gentle and don't think a cuff or 2 will do it. Be aware it will wear you out, but hang in there. With my Dare to Scream female at that age it took 12 re-calls with the rope before she shut up on the send. Don't worry whatever you do to her to make her quiet will not deminish her go.

Angie
 
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