RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Over the years we have had 2 different outside judges stress the need for the handler to walk on a walkup.
I could find nothing in the rulebook about this.

The judges did not want to see a "sneak" as a hunter would do while jump shooting.
One judge from Louisiana was clear that if the handler "sneaks", he would be sent back to the holding blind.
A second "sneak" by the handler would be elimination.

At our latest AKC seminar, the national rep said he had no problem with a handler "sneaking" in a walkup.
That makes sense to me since that is how most hunters who a jump shooting walk up while hunting.
Also as a judge, what if a handler is in a wheelchair, or crutches...

I do not judge, and would appreciate thoughts and what are the customs from different areas of the country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
I would LOVE to see handlers sneaking quietly! There is nothing in the rule book that says this is not allowed, but some judges make up their own, unfortunately.

Usually when judging, I am treated to what I consider excessive commands of heel, here, mark, etc. by the handlers on the way to the area where the first bird will be presented, whether it is a walkup test or not. A couple of quiet commands is certainly fine, and to be expected. What I dislike is a steady litany of commands that are obviously only background noise from the dog's perspective, and largely being ignored. It does affect the trainability score in Master tests, and may in Senior tests, depending on severity. -Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Hi Paul,

does/can/should this rule come into play, when it comes to how the handler should approach the line?

"Judges must explain the test set-up to the handler, andfurther explain the objectives or scenarios as they relateto a specific hunting situation. "


I think of the times I have seen a pheasant trying to sneak off while hunting, and rather than have my dog try to catch up to it, I put him at heel and walk (at a fairly quick clip) to where I last saw the bird. I am not a 'legitimate' pheasant hunter, having only been a few times.. but this worked for me on a couple of occasions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,337 Posts
Hi Paul,

does/can/should this rule come into play, when it comes to how the handler should approach the line?

"Judges must explain the test set-up to the handler, andfurther explain the objectives or scenarios as they relate a specific hunting situation. "


I think of the times I have seen a pheasant trying to sneak off while hunting, and rather than have my dog try to catch up to it, I put him at heel and walk (at a fairly quick clip) to where I last saw the bird. I am not a 'legitimate' pheasant hunter, having only been a few times.. but this worked for me on a couple of occasions.
I always try to explain my set ups in as much detail as I can, at least what I thought when I set them up.
I explain what the factors are and what I am looking for the dog to do.

On a land walk-up (upland type situation), if the dog is just outside the gun and I think he was just trying to get a better angle on the bird, I ask the handler to re-heel the dog and then release him or her.
I don't usually see too many upland hunters sneaking up on pheasant...…...but maybe some do.
I don't usually mark down a dog that just changed a little to get a better view.
Kind of arbitrary, but we (the judges) always discuss that ahead of time.
Most judges I have worked with agree with that assessment.

In a water walk-up, we don't like to see the dog go ahead into the water, that is not a good thing.
And "sneaking" up on a pot hole to jump shoot makes sense.

BUT----It is all dependent on what is happening that day, things are fluid in these games.

As experienced hunters and handlers, generally speaking, we know what the "sneak" is really about and we understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
Hi Paul,

does/can/should this rule come into play, when it comes to how the handler should approach the line?

"Judges must explain the test set-up to the handler, andfurther explain the objectives or scenarios as they relateto a specific hunting situation. "


I think of the times I have seen a pheasant trying to sneak off while hunting, and rather than have my dog try to catch up to it, I put him at heel and walk (at a fairly quick clip) to where I last saw the bird. I am not a 'legitimate' pheasant hunter, having only been a few times.. but this worked for me on a couple of occasions.

It does come into play. In every test, for that matter.

In a lot of cases, I prefer to use the walk up component incorporated into the land-water combination test as a jump shoot scenario, as long as my co-judge agrees. This lends itself to 'sneaking' if the handler wants to do so. Doing it allows for that relatively short mark required in a walk up to have some meaning and difficulty if thrown into cover in the water. I wouldn't make it mandatory to sneak because some people have physical conditions that might make it difficult or impossible for them to do so.

Hard to sneak up on a pheasant, in my experience. That usually results in a footrace, quickly followed by a wild flush out of gun range, but a quiet hunter and Retriever team can successfully pull off a sneak on resting waterfowl in a lot of situations. -Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It does come into play. In every test, for that matter.

In a lot of cases, I prefer to use the walk up component incorporated into the land-water combination test as a jump shoot scenario, as long as my co-judge agrees. This lends itself to 'sneaking' if the handler wants to do so. Doing it allows for that relatively short mark required in a walk up to have some meaning and difficulty if thrown into cover in the water. I wouldn't make it mandatory to sneak because some people have physical conditions that might make it difficult or impossible for them to do so.

Hard to sneak up on a pheasant, in my experience. That usually results in a footrace, quickly followed by a wild flush out of gun range, but a quiet hunter and Retriever team can successfully pull off a sneak on resting waterfowl in a lot of situations. -Paul
Thanks for all the replies!
I walk up on late season wild roosters quite frequently in northern Idaho/eastern Washington
...I hunt with a partner who is working up a draw with his lab,
while I hustle out of sight across wheat stubble to block at the end of the draw...either I get a flush on the walk-up
with my partner still working 100-200 yards away coming up the draw
or a rooster decides to hold tight and later gets flushed by both dogs rooting in the cover.
Then we switch positions for the next draw.

How about someone that is wheelchair bound on walkups? I've never seen it, but I imagine it has occurred somewhere?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
Thanks for all the replies!
I walk up on late season wild roosters quite frequently in northern Idaho/eastern Washington
...I hunt with a partner who is working up a draw with his lab,
while I hustle out of sight across wheat stubble to block at the end of the draw...either I get a flush on the walk-up
with my partner still working 100-200 yards away coming up the draw
or a rooster decides to hold tight and later gets flushed by both dogs rooting in the cover.
Then we switch positions for the next draw.

How about someone that is wheelchair bound on walkups? I've never seen it, but I imagine it has occurred somewhere?

Thanks.
If someone has problems with mobility, every effort would be made to accommodate them, of course.

I always look for a site that is level and firm for the walk up test. No need to make things any more difficult. -Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Over the years we have had 2 different outside judges stress the need for the handler to walk on a walkup.
I could find nothing in the rulebook about this.

The judges did not want to see a "sneak" as a hunter would do while jump shooting.
One judge from Louisiana was clear that if the handler "sneaks", he would be sent back to the holding blind.
A second "sneak" by the handler would be elimination.

At our latest AKC seminar, the national rep said he had no problem with a handler "sneaking" in a walkup.
That makes sense to me since that is how most hunters who a jump shooting walk up while hunting.
Also as a judge, what if a handler is in a wheelchair, or crutches...

I do not judge, and would appreciate thoughts and what are the customs from different areas of the country.
Last I looked "sneaking" is walking. Crutches, no problem by me as long as they hold the gun, same for a wheelchair. In the absence of a clear rule common sense and reason should be used to interpret the intent of the rules or lack there of.

Again, this just my humble opinion.
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Seen a person in a wheelchair this summer do a walkup in senior. His was a electric track chair. Looked simple enough and he done a fine job. I see some choose to sneak, I prefer a brisk walk. The people Ive seen sneak are typically the one's that say heel 20 times before the bird is thrown. Hard sneaking in to jump shoot a pond if your saying heel and battling with your dog to keep them at heel. If it's quite commands okay, but most are rather loud with their commands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,187 Posts
Is a "Walkup" a situation that mimics a "surprise" flush situation? And isnt its main reason in a test to test a dogs steadyness?

Cuing a dog with a sneak,, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION isnt creating a "surprise" situation! You as the handler have cued the dog.. I feel the same way with a handler that repetedly commands the dog to "Mark" as it is walking..

IMHO,, Judges I have run under has had the test described with a senario as "you are walking to your blind, with the dog at your side, not hunting, and a bird surprises you both with a flush.. we want to se the dog respond to a steady .. You are allowed a whistle OR a vocal command such as "sit" ONCE!..

They want the dog and handler moving, walking to mimic a surprise situation.. Dog NOT Hunting.. The dog doesnt necessaritly have to be at "heel".. but is a good handler technique, considering the walk up bird may well be one bird of a Master tests triple..


Section 18. Walk Ups. In Senior and Master huntingtests, a walk up is used to test a dog’s steadiness. Thebirds represent a surprise situation therefore gunningstations must be well concealed, utilizing natural coverwhen possible so that only the bird may be seen whenlaunched. Birds shall be presented at a maximum distanceof 45 yards of the dog with no attention getting devicesutilized.As the first bird is thrown in a walk up situation, thehandler may give either a verbal or whistle command tosteady the dog once the bird is in the air. Judges shalltell handlers in advance of the start of judging when it isappropriate to give the steadying commend or whistle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,187 Posts
So,if you think about it, It tests a dog being steady to wing (Flush) and a shot (Bang)..

Except the dog isnt in the actual physical process of "Hunting" The hunting team is merly walking along.. either to or from the blind for example.. then, SURPRISE,,, a bird!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,187 Posts
My typical method of waterfowl is jump shooting!! I keep the dog with me at heelas I work down a canal or river bank, occationally glassing the water ahead. When I spot birds, I make a visual where they are in relation to a marker on the bank.. We move deliberatly to that mark,, and as we get close, we start to sneak.. The dog is well aware something is about to happen! Its no surprise!!! Birds flush.. :) she breaks,, I miss,, all over! :)


Very typical day afield!! :)
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top