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I'd like to hear people's experiences with dogs being washed out by a pro. Did you accept it at face value.....did you continue to train yourself.....or possibly take your dog to another pro?

I'm curious at what point people give up on a dog.
 

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There are plenty of wash out stories where one pro washed out a dog and the dog was put with someone else who has gone on to be a good dog. Some dogs do better under under certain programs and some trainers train every dog the same so they will wash out a softer dog bcause softer dog doesn't fit there program. Soft dog doesn't mean dumb dog or untrainable dog
 

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Dogs are a lot like children as even in same family, one child will respond differently from brother or sister to same experience. Dogs are not all cut out to be "truck dogs" each pup may respond differently to pressure & the successful pros usually have a certain routine that they follow for all dogs on their truck. The dog that doesn't respond & progress may be a washout for THAT PRO. That being said doesn't mean dog won't be a succes with another Pro or with you training yourself. We have had FT washouts that we enjoyed for many years as hunting companion & running HT. Have fun with your dog.
Very few dog become All Age Open FC's
 

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I had a very well bred Grady pup that was washed out by a well known pro. I was not real high on her when I sent her to him so I was not surprised on his decision. I trained her for about 6 more months and sold her to a HT test pro who was training her full brother. He ended up getting a SH on her and I asked him "did I make a mistake selling her?" He said "no" and that he was very lucky to get a SH on her and that she would never be good enough to be a MH or QAA which was my goal for all my female dogs.
 

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There is a huge demand for washed out trial dogs. They know all of the basics, know multiple retrieves and blinds and know how to mind!! The duck hunters here in the south scoop up everyone that I have ever heard of. Also, there seems to be a demand for the FT wash outs to give to young handlers who are just getting into the HRC or HT game and need a steady dog. There is LIFE AFTER FT for sure!!
 

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There are plenty of wash out stories where one pro washed out a dog and the dog was put with someone else who has gone on to be a good dog. Some dogs do better under under certain programs and some trainers train every dog the same so they will wash out a softer dog bcause softer dog doesn't fit there program. Soft dog doesn't mean dumb dog or untrainable dog
What does that say about the PRO...........

john
 

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Meaning they don't change anything on how they handle dogs, every dog gets handled the same whether they are soft or fire breathers. Either the dog fits the pro's training program or it's gone. I am sure there are "softer" field trial titled dogs that may have been washed by certain pro's early on if they couldn't take the pressure the pro wanted.
 

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Meaning they don't change anything on how they handle dogs, every dog gets handled the same whether they are soft or fire breathers. Either the dog fits the pro's training program or it's gone. I am sure there are "softer" field trial titled dogs that may have been washed by certain pro's early on if they couldn't take the pressure the pro wanted.


They don't just wash out the soft ones......
"Zipper"( http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33990&page=3
) ended up with 174 or so points under Ed Forry after being "washed out" by another top shelf A lister. A soft dog he was not;-).

john
 

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Meaning they don't change anything on how they handle dogs, every dog gets handled the same whether they are soft or fire breathers. Either the dog fits the pro's training program or it's gone. I am sure there are "softer" field trial titled dogs that may have been washed by certain pro's early on if they couldn't take the pressure the pro wanted.
I think you over-generalize.

Upon what specific experiences do you base your statements?

I have trained with several pros who adapted their methods to fit the particular dog. I can't recall any pro with whom I have trained who had a one size fits all mentality.

I have washed out numerous dogs over the past 15 years.

The primary reason for my decision? They weren't good enough markers.
I have also washed out dogs that had health issues (bad hips, bad eyes, bad elbows).
And I have washed out one or two for lack of desire.
I can't remember a dog that I have washed out for being too soft or sensitive.

 

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Neither of the two that I am basing my statements off of are FT pro's. Both are hT pro. I specifically had a dog with one of them and she could mark anything any of the other dogs could but he would even make statements. If a dog can't take my collar turned up a dog can't take my training. My dog came home and would piss everywhere and stat shaking if I just grabbed my collar off the charger. I am by NOOOO way saying that most trainers are this way AT ALL. I am ONLY speaking of two particular ones. One I had a dog with and one I worked for, for a very short time.
 

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I purchased a wash out from a local pro many years ago. She was to be a hunting dog only...... Id take wash outs like her form the pro again, all day long. To this day she was one of the best hunting dogs I have had.
 

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I'll bet that you can find washouts that have gone on to become successful with someone else.
 

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I am STILL waiting to hear the story of how Ed Forry fixed Zipper!:D Too late for my Indy, but I would still love to know.
 

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Years ago I purchased a wash out at 6 yr old. He was #10 on the Derby list, had a minor double header, and Open/Am placements. He ran trials from Florida to California and was on and off Don Remien's truck for years. He was at the point that the owners and Don made a decision that he wasn't going to make FC or AFC. The owners stuck with him longer than most would have, but I knew them well so they knew he was coming to a good home. I ran HT and hunted with him for 4 years. That dog would carry an angle back for a mile!

Summittview Todd was the best dog I have ever had. Thanks to the owners and Don Remien's great training.
 

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I'd like to hear people's experiences with dogs being washed out by a pro. Did you accept it at face value.....did you continue to train yourself.....or possibly take your dog to another pro?

I'm curious at what point people give up on a dog.
I'll try to answer your question.

I had a bitch out of Rudy that went to a pro @ 7 months. She was on the truck for that summer and thru the winter trip. My first goal was to get her on the Derby list, 2nd goal was to get her QAA and 3rd was hopefully she would be able to play at the AA level. I had told myself that I would give up 2 winter trips before I said enough.

She came home after the 1st trip and roughly 8-10 months of training and we promptly failed to finish 6-8 derbies. That fall the pro did his best to talk me out of sending her again. I just told him 1 more trip and then we'll go from there. That next Spring she did get a 4th, 1st & 3rd in the Qual to accomplish goal #2 and the pro felt maybe she had turned a corner maturity wise.

She was ok but nothing to write home about for the next year or 2. We received a AM Jam @ 3 and a AM 2nd @ 4. Each year however she just lost more and more desire to train or trial. I would tell people that she was a 4 cylinder car on a quad and she lost a cylinder after each bird to the point where she nearly would just trot to the final bird.

That was enough for me, I can't run that type of dog. Could she do the work? yes. Did she want to do the work? no.

In the end I believe it comes down to you. What are your goals? How do you want to see your dog perform? Is the dog meeting your particular standards?

I believe there are some people who ask that their pro be honest however some times the truth hurts and people don't always want to accept that. While others are very appreciative of the pro and move on with something else.

If you are in this position I wish you GOOD LUCK with your decision. Make your decision and don't look back.
 

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I know of one "cinderella story" washout who was called FC AFC Cornerstone Wizard of Oz. Jim took him home from the pro.... took the collar off and he became an FC AFC, 1996 Nat Am finalist, 1997 finalist and 1995 number 2 Am dog of the year according to Good Dog Info.
 

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I've had many dogs that would have been washed out with many pros. It all depends what you are looking for and how patient you are. If a dog really didn't want to work I would find him a home, but some dogs need to be successful with the right pro and they blossom. You must find a pro that you trust that will be honest with you. I had several dogs that I quit with-females. One RJ her first derby and then didn't want to look out at the marks. I decided to give her a rest and came back and she did it right away. I put her in a hunting home and she did great as did the other one. They just did not have the desire to be a team in training but were outstanding hunters. I had several others that had quirks, but managed to keep improving, but they were also very birdy and had the desire to please. One did all age, one stopped at QAA (female). It all depends.
 
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