I'm friends with the flat-coated retriever owner. Very excited for my friend. Got a txt this morning that Mariah got Best of Breed in flat-coats.
Westminster
While channel surfing for something to watch before Rangers Mariners game I found this (Westminster) just as the sporting breeds were showcased. The Pointers were fit but much too large, the Setters fit but too large and too much hair. When the Retrievers appeared the only breed with an example of a working dog was the Flat Coat, when the Labrador appeared 🤮 I became violently ill! What the conformation breeders have done to the breed is beyond disgusting. Real working Pointing breeds formed American Field, if the Labrador as we know it is to survive we need a separate registry.
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Dr. Ed, I agree...very sad how they have split the breed. Most of the show people don't even know there is a breed standard!
Even worse, I suspect most of them think their dog is it.Most of the show people don't even know there is a breed standard!
Anyhow, Dr. Ed, how were the cankles at Westminster this year?
lots of overweight, short legged dogs with heads too big, necks too large and short, and probably a few with too much coat. I would guess.
I saw it. I don't call those dogs Labradors. I call them Flabradors. How did this ever happen? The conformation of many field trial Labs today is exactly what Dual Champion Labs looked like. We'll never see one of those again.
And think what those same show people must feel about people in the HT & FT game. I would say everyone should stay in their lane and not worry about what others are doing.
In general I agree but this is about the integrity of the breed as we know it and as it has been for more than 100 years. The conformation breeders have altered the breed into an unrecognizable form physically incapable of performing the tasks it was developed for.And think what those same show people must feel about people in the HT & FT game. I would say everyone should stay in their lane and not worry about what others are doing.
I would disagree with this.Breeds were developed for a purpose & to ignore this is doing a disservice to the breed.
Posted at the same time as Dr Ed, he said it better.
I would love to see what a Lab looked like 100 years ago. Or how a Lab acted 100 years ago. My guess, there would be few if any "fire breathers".
FT trial people breed for a certain element as do show people. Show people look down their nose's at FT/HT people, just as FT/HT people look down their nose's at show people.
FT trial people breed for a certain element as do show people. Show people look down their nose's at FT/HT people, just as FT/HT people look down their nose's at show people.
You are being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian without substantive contribution to the discussion. This is not about people it is about a breed of dog and the changes to original purpose made by conformation only breeders.I would love to see what a Lab looked like 100 years ago. Or how a Lab acted 100 years ago. My guess, there would be few if any "fire breathers".
FT trial people breed for a certain element as do show people. Show people look down their nose's at FT/HT people, just as FT/HT people look down their nose's at show people.
C'mon man, are you saying that FT/HT people don't breed for a certain type?
Its pretty sad to see those dogs. They wouldnt last 10 minutes into a hunt, hunt test or field trial. Without oxygen of food. The Field Labs today are supreme athletes and most look the part. They do come in all shapes and sizes, but athletic is the key. I ran a Master test this past weekend and there were a few, what I would consider, Bench type dogs. It was painful to watch. Slow, zero style, no real retrieving desire. Some accomplished the test, others would still be in the filed if not for being called in.
Of course, for the things the breed was designed to do, retrieving birds under any condition on land or in the water.C'mon man, are you saying that FT/HT people don't breed for a certain type?
I believe that FT/HT people have changed the look of the Labrador every bit as much as show people have. The one big difference is that FT/HT people want their Lab looking lean, show people want their Lab looking thick.
Whether or not the show Lab can retrieve is irrelevant. I say that because it has been my experience that a FC to FC breeding can/has produced dogs that can't swim let alone retrieve to the standard in which every FT/HT person want or needs to succeed.
Whether or not the show Lab can retrieve is irrelevant. I say that because it has been my experience that a FC to FC breeding can/has produced dogs that can't swim let alone retrieve to the standard in which every FT/HT person want or needs to succeed.
The field dogs of today look overwhelmingly closer to the dual champions from 60 years ago than the show dogs of today (which look like a different breed all together). Two of these dogs are dual champions from the 50's. Do they even remotely resemble the show dogs of today?I believe that FT/HT people have changed the look of the Labrador every bit as much as show people have. The one big difference is that FT/HT people want their Lab looking lean, show people want their Lab looking thick.
Whether or not the show Lab can retrieve is irrelevant. I say that because it has been my experience that a FC to FC breeding can/has produced dogs that can't swim let alone retrieve to the standard in which every FT/HT person want or needs to succeed.
How a litter is raised can make a big difference in how pups mature. I have seen an even higher ranking litter (nfcxfc) raised in a duck pen and they didn’t turn out. Nature rarely “reproduces” at 100% for the entire litter anyway but when you continue to select for trends to win in conformation instead of athletic ability and intelligence, you are creating a different breed which might as well be separate breeds. It’s more than a layer of fat separating themWhether or not the show Lab can retrieve is irrelevant. I say that because it has been my experience that a FC to FC breeding can/has produced dogs that can't swim let alone retrieve to the standard in which every FT/HT person want or needs to succeed.
show people want their Lab looking thick.
I dont think thick is the word youre looking for. Those dogs are fat and might be able to do the job they were bred for, but it would be under duress. I cant imagine the bench dogs running through a rice field in Arkansas. Their undersides would drag the ground. The picture of the dogs from the 60s makes my heart go flitter flitter. Beautiful, Athletic, fit for their jobs.
I dont think thick is the word youre looking for. Those dogs are fat and might be able to do the job they were bred for, but it would be under duress. I cant imagine the bench dogs running through a rice field in Arkansas. Their undersides would drag the ground. The picture of the dogs from the 60s makes my heart go flitter flitter. Beautiful, Athletic, fit for their jobs.
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