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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Dawgie Fans :)
I know I am going to get alot of different opinions on this subject...But I need to purchase some GOOD material on FF & CC that starts from the beginning for training my new lab pup.
He is 7 months and doing great on OB. My/His problem is he is not LOVING the retrieving game. I can turn him on with birds, that I think is my ace to his eventual retrieving desire coming alive.
I am holding off on the birds since he is a chewer and doesn't want to come back when he has real feathers in his mouth!
Thats why I want to get him started on FF or CC so we can move onto reliable retrieving without DESTROYING the birds!
I have never had to train FF or CC and want to find some good material to study to help get ME through this! :roll:
Thanks in advance for your input and advice.
>>>~~~Chris & A.J.~~>
 

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Chris,

I don't think you could go wrong if you bought Evan Graham's DVD on FF. It is very good. I like Mike Lardy's CC DVD. There are a lot of others but those are my favorites.

Bill
 

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I have to vote for Mike Lardy's CC DVD -- very thorough -- very complete -- as well has my BLM Maxx's sire Click as the "star".
 

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Lardys CC DVD is the best training DVD I've ever seen. Usually I prefer the written word to videos, but this one walks you through it from start to finish VERY well. The fireside chats with Dennis really tie everything together also
 

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I too have Lardy's CC video and have it is great! I have used it to CC a couple of dogs. Also the Smartwork Series is great as well. Both Smartwork I and the Smartfetch material is excellent. I am training my new pup based on the Smartwork Sereis of material. Pick one format and stick with that style, follow along and take your time.

Good Luck,
David Sours
 

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mjh345 said:
Lardys CC DVD is the best training DVD I've ever seen. Usually I prefer the written word to videos, but this one walks you through it from start to finish VERY well. The fireside chats with Dennis really tie everything together also
I stayed Amish for a long time and really struggled with the notion of getting into the 21st century and doing it right. I echo mjh's words. Mike's CC material taking "Click" from start to finish was very valuable.

As already stated, the discussions after each session really help you gain lots of insight to help read your own dog and chart your own course for cc'ing a dog.

I'd also suggest Rick Stawski's Fowldogs DVD as a supplement. It runs along quickly and has lots of solid, no-nonsense easy to follow material.

Chris
 

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For FF reading material, I still personally really like the force-breaking chapter from James B. Spencer's book TRAINING RETRIEVERS for the MARSHES AND MEADOWS...I like to substitute "hold" for steps one and two, and then introduce the command "fetch" as I get into step three, once the dog begins reacting to the pressure and learning how to turn it off.

Rick Stawski's DVD is helpful for FF...I just wish that little golden didn't vocalize so much! 8) I've only FF'd a few dogs and I have yet to see one react like that. I know that it has nothing to do with Rick or the method/technique - and I believe he and Shawn chose to use that footage to show an example of how one type of dog may react to the process - and if they do, how to deal with it. What I really like about Rick's demeanor in the steps is how he is calm, fair, and encouraging with appropriate praise without being - as Lardy puts it, "syrupy".
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How long (approx) does Lardy's video's take?

Not that I am going to RUSH through anything or in a hurry, just curious on the general time frame these take :lol:
I have never had to FF or CC, but then again I never took things to advanced training!
My last lab we got our JH title and that was enough for me at the time to teach the dawg enough to hunt Geese & Ducks for me!
But I did have some circumstances where the blind retrieves could have used more work, I just didn't know how to teach it :oops:
I have been doing ALOT of reading though and starting to puts things together enough to know thats what he needs! I have a ridge View Lab that is so full of spit fire, he is going to definatly be MY CHALLANGE!!!
I am in the process of joining a new retriever club and hope they can help on some issues that I'm sure will be popping up.
I JUST LOVE THE DAWGIE GAMES :D
Thanks for all your inputs.
P.S. Ducksoup - Thats awsome that you have a click boy!!! I'm anxious to see the STAR!
 

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I just watched the Smartworks DVD on force fetch. It is really good because it explains the book very well. It eleminates unanswered questions from the book. The way he does it is pretty cool.

As far as what is available on video for force fetch that is something everyone should watch. There is a lot of technique being demonstrated in it.

Something that I thought really helped me with force fetch, is articles of RetrieversONLINE. I'm still learning and picking up things. One in particular comes to mind.

Something that really helped me with collar conditioning was an article by Pat Nolan on traditional e-collar conditioning. That combined with the Lardy CC Video and making mistakes with my first dog allowed me to do a better job the second time around. Lets just say if my dog sees me fiddling with the dials on the transmitter, she wants to go fast, whereas my other dog doesn't seem to understand it quite as well. My force on back is a little suspect though, but like I said I am still learning.
 

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Decoy,
Before you jump into FF & CC, I think you should try to take care of this:

My/His problem is he is not LOVING the retrieving game.
FF is not used to instill desire into a dog. You need to try to "build a fire" as much as you can.

I can turn him on with birds, that I think is my ace to his eventual retrieving desire coming alive.
I am holding off on the birds since he is a chewer and doesn't want to come back when he has real feathers in his mouth!
Have you tried using a checkcord to bring him back in once he has the bird?
Are you hand throwing his birds or do you have someone else out there throwing for you? Try getting someone else to go out with a bucket of several birds. Send him for the first one, "reel" him back in (no fight ... just teach), get him turned around and throw the next one. He'll soon get the idea that this game is fun ... "bring one back and i get another!"
Once you get him a little more enthused about retrieving, you can go back to bumpers and FF.
Needless to say, don't let the chewing become a habit. Hope this helps.

JS

I concur with the above recommended books and videos, BTW.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi JS:
Yes, I have tried the check cord. He does a couple retrieves with bumpers and I stop before he gets bored and starts dropping the bumper on the way in. I CAN get him really birdy to retrieve with goose wings or a frozen duck, but he lays down and I can litterally drag him to me, he refuses to come any where near me with the real thing. In the mean time he is chomping and trying to swollow it whole!!! Thats why I am staying away from feathers until I can get a grip on the chomping and firm him up on returning before I install the habit I see starting.

Any other suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. Maybe someone out there see's something I should try first???

I DO think once I get the FF issues SOLID, then I can impliment the birds and drive him nuts on retrieving.

I do know I have my work cut out for me.

HELP!!!! Thanks Chris :?
 

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Your obedience, especially "Here", should be as shiney as a new dime before starting force fetch. I'm not just talking about teaching it, but also formalizing it.

I'm a strong proponent of CC to "Here" early on in formalizing obedience. This should not be an issue by the time you enter FF. In addition, your dog should sit instantly and firmly without squirming, lying down, getting up on his own, etc. Lacking any of that, your FF efflorts will be hampered.

Good luck,

Evan
 

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One more vote for the Lardy CC DVD and also a second vote for Rick Stawski's DVD. His DVD is the best I have seen for FF. Rick's DVD has a bunch of great info and it isn't just FF or CC and it won't break the bank!
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
THANKS Everybody for your info! (-:

Thanks for all of your input, and EVAN: I do have your first book and have read that as my bible with my last dawg!

We have been to 2 obedience classes for the socialization with other dogs and people, that is helping immensly and gives me the distractions I need for his OB.

This lil guy is definatly my challange, he needs stimulation constantly!
But I LOVE every minute of it :D

KUDO's To all of you! Chris
 

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Thanks, Chris.

I think you'll love the detail in our SF course as well. Best of luck!

Evan
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Robert Milner's "Retriever Training for the Duck Hunter".
Very thorough. Probably out of print. Accept no substitute as he had a follow up book that was less demanding and not as detailed.
Evan Graham's published material would give you a sound and solid foundation in your dog if follow through on the lessons he gives.
 
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