RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Am I reading that both sire an dam were born in 2006??????? :shock:
I see very little OFA either.
 
G

·
badbullgator said:
Am I reading that both sire an dam were born in 2006??????? :shock:
The number in parentheses is when the dog was added to the AKC Stud Books, not the dog's birthday.

So Blade, this appears to be a litter that has already been born. Do you own a pup from it or are you considering one from a repeat breeding?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,869 Posts
.

I would say if you like the pup and parents go for it but I personally wouldnt pay over 150 for a pup as his pedigree is not that impressive.It is worth a shot if you are interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,411 Posts
Melanie Foster said:
badbullgator said:
Am I reading that both sire an dam were born in 2006??????? :shock:
The number in parentheses is when the dog was added to the AKC Stud Books, not the dog's birthday.

So Blade, this appears to be a litter that has already been born. Do you own a pup from it or are you considering one from a repeat breeding?
Thanks, I was not sure.
I would not be interested in this breeding just beacuse there are better out there, but that is not to imply there is anything wrong with this litter. Neither parent titled nor OFA'ed, at least no numbers on the pedigree. Nothing special, but if you like the breeding go for it. I have had dogs from “nothing special” litters that turned out fine as hunters and HT dogs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
I think those dates are the stud book entry date from when the dogs were first bred, not the birth date. The clearances should be on the pedigree since both the sire and dam have been bred--it looks like there are no OFA clearances til you get way back to the 4th generation and then, only a couple. That's strike #1. You would have to know the sire and dam personally to offer an opinion on a puppy with no titles other than 2 grandparents. Some of the dogs may have other titles that would not show up on an AKC pedigree such as NAHRA or HRC titles so that is something to consider, also.

Remember that ancestors further back (3 gen.) contributes virtually nothing to the genetic make up of the pup. I can't recall exact numbers but each parent contributes a large majority of a pup's genetic make up. That's why it would be so important to know them personally. Each grandparent, something like 6.25 percent. Great grandparent or further back, next to nothing (less than 1 percent). So even though there are some "big name" dogs back in the 4th generation, they are too far back to contribute anything to a puppy from this mating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the info...

Not looking for the million dollar dog or a list of title. Parents are great hunters and are great with people..I guess that's all that intrest me..I will keep you up to date with the puppy's progress and maybe someday I can post some letters behind or in front of his name..Maybe I can find my diamond in the rough...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,767 Posts
I don't see any OFA numbers in the OFA database on the parents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
I recently read a book, "ABC's of Dog Breeding, What Every Breeder Should Know" by Claudia Waller Orlandi, PhD

I have no plans on breeding but found the book quite interesting. It is easy to read and quite basic (which is good for me :wink: ). Although it was aimed at confirmation, it discuss how traits (including temperament) are inherited, the impact of sire, dam, grandparents and great-grandparents and how much variation and uncertainity goes into creating the DNA of a new pup. I'd recommend the book for someone with little indepth knowledge in the genetics of dog breeding.

Hunting ability, according to the book, is an "additive trait" and with "additive traits", what you see in the parents helps predict what you get, so breeding for these traits can be more reliable. (paraphrasing page 62 in the book)

Anyway, I bring that up because it makes the point that beyond generation 3, there's very little influence on the dog.. One big point she does make is the Autosomal Recessive defects can stay hidden for generations, so it is important to know the dogs in the pedigree for this reason, even dogs several generations back, because you very much want to minimize your chance of the autosomal recessive defects popping up in your pup.


Interesting book for someone like me who has very little knowledge about dog breeding..

Bente
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
The puppies parents are AKC registered and have no titles, or legs in any AKC event. Both have birthdays in 2003. Male has no DNA number.

FYI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,356 Posts
If you've already made your decision, good luck.

If not, you've got some feedback with which to work. Health clearances are the basic building blocks that ANY puppy buyer should reasonably expect a breeder to provide. The absence of them would immediately create concern for probably 90+% of all folks who post here.

There's a reason for that.

kg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Re: Thanks for the info...

BLADE said:
Not looking for the million dollar dog or a list of title. Parents are great hunters and are great with people..I guess that's all that intrest me..I will keep you up to date with the puppy's progress and maybe someday I can post some letters behind or in front of his name..Maybe I can find my diamond in the rough...
For 500$ pups can be had from parents with OFA clearances, CNM Clearances, MH / QAA Titles (sometimes FCs), and hip/eye guarantees.

Good luck with your pup!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
K G said:
If you've already made your decision, good luck.

If not, you've got some feedback with which to work. Health clearances are the basic building blocks that ANY puppy buyer should reasonably expect a breeder to provide. The absence of them would immediately create concern for probably 90+% of all folks who post here.

There's a reason for that.

kg
Blade - for what you're describing as your desires for a dog, I can understand why the lack of titles is something that you're willing to accept, especially when you say you know and have been around the sire/dam of the litter.


However, I completely agree with Keith and others that have posted reservations about the lack of OFA and non-required clearances, such as CNM DNA testing.

Those restrictions aren't in place because we want labs to be fancy-schmancy. They exist because there is a sound genetic basis for those maladies, and need to be attended to and eliminated from the breed. While the OFA tests are not perfect indicators of soundness in the puppies, they are at least an indicator. And as a buyer of a pup that you want to commit a lot of dollars, and more importantly, time, money and heart, don't you want to up your odds as much as you can? There are no guarantees, but at least you have some odds on your side instead of no information.

So heed that advice well. And good luck!

Lydia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
When I was new to the game, I purchased a puppy with a similiar pedigree. I would not trade my dog for the world, but did end up with issues. Both of my dogs sire and dam had their OFAs--------one of them was a fair however and from a line of dogs not tested. Both were good hunters.

I ended up with super working dog. Running MH now and in hopes of qualifying with some luck in the future. The cost however is that he has Mild Hip Displasia.

Its hard to put all that work into a dog and have him come back with health issues. I would not trade my dog for anything but would have done it differently if I could go back in time.

Get all health clearances for the Sire and Dam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,314 Posts
Parents are great hunters and are great with people..I guess that's all that intrest me..
Hang around for a while and you will find lurking under all of the platitudes,is the fact that Field Prowess trumps Health clearences with, to a great extent, the Field Trilers and their wannabes on the RTF.

But ....to most here, that Field Prowess is limited to success at the Games not success Hunting.

I'm not for Breeding ANY dog without health clearences but I am also against the Bottelnecking that is going on in the field lines


500 Point Displastic FC/AFC regards,

john
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
john fallon said:
Parents are great hunters and are great with people..I guess that's all that intrest me..
Hang around for a while and you will find lurking under all of the platitudes,is the fact that Field Prowess trumps Health clearences with, to a great extent, the Field Trilers and their wannabes on the RTF.

But ....to most here, that Field Prowess is limited to success at the Games not success Hunting.

I'm not for Breeding ANY dog without health clearences but I am also against the Bottelnecking that is going on in the field lines


500 Point Displastic FC/AFC regards,

john
Understood. I am however having my guy neutered. <might have mispelled that, haha>.
I believe you should at least try to get the health clearances and then worry about the pedigree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,019 Posts
Re: Thanks for the info...

BLADE said:
Not looking for the million dollar dog or a list of title. Parents are great hunters and are great with people..I guess that's all that intrest me..I will keep you up to date with the puppy's progress and maybe someday I can post some letters behind or in front of his name..Maybe I can find my diamond in the rough...
Sounds like you may already own the pup, and if that's so, it may be of some comfort to know that running OFA searches on the grandparents shows all but the maternal granddam have sound hip clearances and vertical pedigrees of such suggesting they're not healthy flukes. (Nothing shows on that maternal granddam or her parents.)

For this hunter, who's had two CHD dogs out of Good x Good breedings, knowing (not just hearing) that the parents "are great hunters and are great with people" might very well over-ride the health questions your pup's pedigree leaves open. Real, first hand, knowledge of superior aptitude and attitude isn't always easy for some of us to come by and would carry an awful lot of weight with me.

(Which isn't to suggest I believe the breeding was a responsible one.)

In any event, if you do already have the pup, make the best of your time together, even full, healthy dog lives are too short.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
883 Posts
My first Lab was the runt of the litter, was full of worms and had a tail that looked like a cork-screw. Both her parents were great hunters and the maiden bitch got bred when she was 9 months old! :eek: We took her from the litter at 5 weeks due to the pups being raised on the ground and the obvious worm problem. There was virtually nothing in her pedigree until way back. I did not realise that they had to be trained, I thought it all came built in. I do not recall but one dove and one duck that I knocked down that she did not retrieve. She did not handle. She did not know she was a dog. She was the Foundation Bitch of Gator Point Kennels and most of the dogs from here (over 900 in the last 24 years) have her hearing up their pedigree. You have to start somewhere, so enjoy your pup and go for it. Bill
________
Glass bubblers
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top