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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
8mo lab spends time in the crate at night and during the day when not training or being a part of the family. Whines when we come home or if she hears us outside the door of the room she's in (she's getting plenty of bathroom, food and water time). It's below bark collar threshold. "Hush" and a good tune-up stop it for a while, but the next day it's more of the same. What would you do to stop it?

My thoughts: More hush/tune-ups? She is CC, what will happen if I leave the collar on her and "hush" nick "hush" for a while? Will this lead to her being collar-wise? Can she wear the collar too long/too much?

I'd love to hear some suggestions. My last dog was just naturally quiet, I guess; alas, this one is not :D .
 

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My thoughts: More hush/tune-ups? She is CC, what will happen if I leave the collar on her and "hush" nick "hush" for a while? Will this lead to her being collar-wise? Can she wear the collar too long/too much?

Hi

A bark collar will work on a wine. At least mine will I hear some even of the same model won't. Mine is a tt from about 8 years ago.

Some dogs will get soars from wearing the collar to long others are fine.

8 months is pretty young I would exhust the getting her tired and minimizing the time in the crate---to undo what probably is a habit.

Bob
 

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Zoe's next said:
Whines when we come home or if she hears us outside the door of the room she's in
In addtion to lots and lots of daily exercise, is she getting plenty of family time every day?

Our dogs are rarely crated when we are home, so I can't relate very well to crating a dog in a nearby room instead of having it in the room with me.

Jeff
 

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My dog was that way for awhile.We found that a squirt bottle with water worked the best for him and some loud "Quiets"with it at the same time.Gradually it went away.At times just leaving the squirt bottle in front of the crate was left as a reminder.He still does it sometimes now but usually "Quiet" is enough to end it.Our dog is a little over 17 months.He's moved on to other issues for us to work on now.It seems as soon as you fix one thing something else pops up to work on.
 

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Do you let her out as soon as you get home? I would let her out to do her business and see you for a bit and if need to put her back in the kennel I would give her something else to thing about like a kong toy stuffed with peanut butter (if you put it in the freezer first then it will take her longer to get the pb out) or things like nylabones or treat cubes. Keeps them from thinking about other things.

I like the bark collar better than the shock collar because the bark collar will get her everytime and unless you are outside the door constantly you arn't getting her everytime she crys.

You also need to ignore her, everytime you are saying "hush" to her she is getting what she wants. She crys and then you give her attention by talking to her. Very evil process she is teaching you to respond to her and is getting what she wants. That's why I think interactive toys work better.

More exercise also!

Here is a article about whining.

DEALING WITH WHINING DOGS
Dr. Nicholas Dodman
PetPlace.com
Behavioral Disorders - General Practice & Preventative Medicine


INTRODUCTION
Dogs don’t have too many sounds in their vocabulary – there’s growling, barking, howling, whining … and that’s about it. The original function of these sounds was fairly straightforward – the growl being a warning; the bark, an exclamation; the howl, a long-distance communication; and whining, a care-soliciting call. But dogs can employ all of these sounds in different ways. Under different circumstances they use them to express a number of different desires and emotions.

It may not be surprising to learn that there are various types of growl, each implying a different level of threat (the mutter or grumble, the throat growl, and the belly growl, for example) or that barking serves more than one purpose – either beckoning, warning, or indicating arousal and excitement. It may not be quite as obvious, however, that whining can also be a flexible vocal tool.


HUMBLE BEGINNINGS
Young puppies whine to communicate with their moms. Whining by pups, like the crying of human infants, is a sound that is virtually irresistible, thus ensuring the pups’ proper care and attention. At first, whining is automatic, rather than planned, and is stimulated whenever the youngster is cold or hungry. The result: A visit from mom whenever one of her pups whines. She is then able to assess the need of the pup and to supply the missing ingredient. Soon, pups learn to whine with purpose.

THE NEXT STEP
Human families adopt pups at around 8 weeks of age. By this time they certainly have the whining game down to a tee, but now they must find out what effect it will have on their new caretakers. Newly adopted pups whine for the same basic reasons as before, but now there’s no mom to summon. Loneliness or boredom may precipitate their sorrowful whimpering and whining in vain hopes that she might reappear but, of course, she usually doesn’t. It’s the owner’s response to the pup’s whining that determines how things progress from this point onwards.

Owners reactions fall into three categories:


Those who ones who leave the pup to whimper unattended – the uninitiated or uncaring types
Those who approach the pup to make sure it’s all right and take any action that is necessary – the thoughtful types
Those who attend to the pup at every whine and whimper as if the pup was in mortal danger – the nurturers
Pups who wind up with uninitiated or uncaring owners eventually learn that whining is an ineffective strategy for dealing with their problems and may cease the behavior entirely. Pups mistreated in this way do not develop healthy bonds with their owners and often end up as quasi-autistic, social misfits with a tendency toward over-bonding later in life. In essence, lack of attention toward genuinely needy pups, leads to the production of overly needy, clingy adults.

Thoughtful owners, by virtue of their nature, do what is best for their pets. They are there when needed but do not allow themselves to be trained by the pup to follow his every wish and direction. The pup is never allowed to become cold or hungry and never lacks for attention when he really needs it. Pups raised this way become well-balanced adults that will whine for attention when attention is due but for the most part will be affectionate, independent, and respectful.

Nurturing owners try to answer their pup's every whine and whimper. These owners are too easy, too nice, and fail to set limits. Pups catered to in such an attentive manner may become overly pushy adult dogs that expect their owners to jump to attention whenever summoned. Whining is a key method for such dogs to summon attention.

WHINING FOR ATTENTION
Some owners inadvertently condition whining in their dog as a result of consistently (or later intermittently) supplying their direct attention in the form of eye contact, praise or petting. To break this annoying habit, it is important to avoid giving the dog any whining-solicited attention. Sometimes using a neutral stimulus, like the sound of a duck call, to signal the imminent withdrawal of your attention (the opposite of the dog's desired response) helps curtail the whining sooner than simply not responding to the dog's demands.

ANXIOUS WHINING
Some dogs whine when no one is around because they are stressed by their owner's absence. Such whining may be a component of the separation anxiety syndrome. These dogs whine when separated from their owner by a barrier (e.g. door) or sometimes even when the owner is asleep. Though the vocalization may arise almost subconsciously, and may be out of earshot of the nearest human being, it signals a wish to be reunited with the owner.

EXCITED WHINING
Sometimes dogs whine, not as a message to some other creature, but in anticipation of some event. A dog that has chased a squirrel up a tree may find the object of his desire suddenly inaccessible and may whine until his prey disappears from view.

PAIN-INDUCED WHINING
Anyone who has witnessed any number of dogs recovering from surgery or following trauma will probably have noticed whining in this context. Whining at such time is reflexive and automatic. Alleviating postoperative hypothermia and pain goes a long way toward reducing this type of whining, even in a semi-conscious animal.

LEARNED WHINING
Dogs sometimes learn that whining produces a favored response from the owner. If whining gets the owner to produce a Frisbee, for example, and this is what the dog wants, then he will whine to get it. This is similar to attention seeking but a little more specific and contrived. It's more of a communication - directing the owner what to do. This behavior derives from "cause and effect" learning where the effect is positive.


If the dog's ball rolls under a couch, the dog doesn't whine and the owner may fail to notice the dog's dilemma. The result: No reinforcement of the whining.


If the dog whines in frustration at the out-of-reach ball and this causes the owner to free the ball: The dog learns that whining can work to its advantage.
Whining of this type can be used to signal many desires, if it is paired with a secondary cue. For example, a dog that is whining and pointing toward an out-of-reach food treat is signaling that he wants the treat.

TREATMENT
Make sure the dog receives plenty of exercise and feed him a healthy non-performance diet.
Ensure clear communication between the owner and the dog (click and treat is best).
Click and reward when the whining has stopped (wait 3 seconds).
Ignore whining for superfluous attention.
CONCLUSION
All dogs whine but some are more whiney than others. Whining can be almost automatic and may arise in response to certain adverse circumstances or situations, or can be used as a communication device to obtain attention or to achieve some goal. Only excessive, problematic whining requires attention. In some respects, whining in dogs is like crying in children and can be employed in a similar way. If a new puppy cries at night, he should be given some attention, so he knows he can still solicit "maternal attention." However, whining or crying at night should not be rewarded with food, exuberant petting, or picking the pup up, otherwise bad habits can be created. Your presence for a few minutes is quite enough to let the pup know that you hear him, that you are there and that you care.
 

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Why does she need to be crated after you walk in the door or at all? My dogs (well, I guess I just have one now) are all quiet & are crated only when I go to HTs or training-& they are quiet there too. Otherwise I prefer a dog who is comfortable and reliable in the house. I know there are some plain ol' whiny dogs out there, but they are few & far between. Otherwise, a dog who is secure in the fact that he is getting what he needs doesn't really have anything to say. I really hate the quiet-nick idea. A good long walk or hanging out in the living room would work a lot better.

M
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the advice so far. A few things.....she has a bark collar; the whining does not seem to set it off. Toys in the crate have not helped. As for hanging out in the living room; she still chews everything in sight so she either has to be watched all the time (do that when out, but kids are 12,9,7 and sometimes need a little attention at night) or I'd have to drill an o-ring in the center of the floor to tether her to.
 

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Zoe's next said:
Thanks for the advice so far. A few things.....she has a bark collar; the whining does not seem to set it off. Toys in the crate have not helped. As for hanging out in the living room; she still chews everything in sight so she either has to be watched all the time (do that when out, but kids are 12,9,7 and sometimes need a little attention at night) or I'd have to drill an o-ring in the center of the floor to tether her to.
So-how much time does she get for exercise? I realize my situation home- wise is vastly different than yours as my son is grown & gone and you have a full plate it sounds like. But-an 8 month old Lab needs more than just toys to play with & will chew more out of boredom than anything else. If toys are given to substitute exercise-I'm not surprised you have a whiny dog that chews (not meant to sound unkind).

Does she get a schedule? Again-I know you probably can't do this, but I get up at 5:00 so my dog gets at least an hour of exercies before work, another hour at lunch & training after work. I know that would be a stretch for someone w/ 3 kids, but would your 12 year old be a designated dog walker?

I am not trying to be critical, but it bothers me when dogs are crated so they are out of the way & then reprimanded for behavior that are just their way of saying I really need more exercise & mental stimulation. Retrievers need a job & to be intellectually stimulated to be happy.

No More Preaching Regards-

M
 

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What Miriam said.... 3 young kids and a puppy???? You just might have more than you can handle. Your going to have to find a way to deal with the kids and dog together. When my kids were small I would tether the puppy to my belt loop so I could keep an eye on it all the time. Yes your going to be busy taking care of the kids with a dog tied to you.... But unfortunately that's what you signed up for. Locking the dog up for short periods of time is OK but crating them to keep them out of your hair is very counterproductive. Your avoiding training him.

For whining, I just got this tip from a friend who got it from an obedience friend. I have a noisey whiner in the kennel right now. She's her for just that problem along with some others. All it took was 3 shots of bitter apple in the mouth and she was quiet as a tomb. It only took 2 times for my jack russell.

If you have a whiner on line or in the holding blind, it will work there too. Also a little handier would be Bianca or listerine breath spray. They hate it!

Angie
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Miriam,
It's ok, I can take your preaching and you make some good points. They could all use more exercise, I guess. I'd say Zoe is out of her crate about 3-4 hours per day--1-2 hours of exercise/play/training and 2 hours in the family room. She's definitely more quiet when she's tired. Typing this, that doesn't sound like much time out and about; I'll try to increase that.

Angie,
When I trained my last one, my kids were 5,2, and newborn so I thought this would be easier. Probably, the time is, but the dog isn't!!! Bitter apple in the mouth, huh?...just might try that if I get to the last resort.
 

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Along the lines of what Angie wrote...Bill Osborn, the original RTF pro, used to write that a fake lemon (one of those plastic ones full of reconstituted lemon juice" was great to squirt in a whining dog's mouth while saying "quiet"....

He claimed that it worked great. As I recall a few others wrote in, way back then, that it worked for them.

Good luck!

Also, you may want to work on using a command like "quiet" along with opening the door and squeezing pup's snout....then giving some positive reinforcement after pup quiets down....THEN letting pup out of the crate, once quiet.

Chris
 

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Zoe's next said:
I'd say Zoe is out of her crate about 3-4 hours per day--1-2 hours of exercise/play/training and 2 hours in the family room.
Are you saying she is routinely crated 20-21 hours per day?
 

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Wow, that's a lot of time in the crate. My pup just turned a year old and about 4 months ago I started gating him into one room while I was gone. I took out everything I didn't want him to chew on. He doesn't chew on furniture. I put his bed in the room, a bowl of water, and a ton of toys. But more importantly than toys are bones. He likes nylabones ok but real bones will keep him busier for much longer. Stuffed and frozen kongs are great though too. Or those kongs or balls that you can put treats in. Try leaving a radio on for her too.

I second the idea of getting your 12 year old to take her for walks and even getting involved with training her. That way you and your kids can spend time together with the dog. Also, your pup can never learn how to be responsible in the house if she's never allowed out around the house. What I mean is, let her out while you're doing things, gate her out of specific rooms or upstairs if need be. If you catch her chewing or doing other unacceptable behavior that's good! Because then you can correct her and she can learn the difference between good and bad behavior. And why can't she just hang out in the living room and play with the kids?? Don't your kids want to play with her??

You should definitely teach a quiet command and I've had experiences with bark collars not being able to pick up that low level whining. But this pup is definitely not stimulated enough. I'm not trying to be mean but it's a fact. Your dog is a working dog, she needs a job. At least one walk, hopefully two per day. Training time is separate exercise. Playing with the kids and the family is separate time. Teach your pup the down command and put her in another room or next to the table during dinner. She may not be being active but just being with people will keep her quiet.

Good luck!!!
Kourtney
 
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