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I'm a little confused about CNM. Not the disease itself, but the breeding policies. Certainly, there are a lot of high profile producing dogs that are not listed on the white list from the vet in France, not to mention the dogs that have passed, that are being used to breed. I'm not saying that's wrong, I just need to understand what's acceptable and what isn't. Even the website suggests that breeding a possible carrier is acceptable.

Are we saying that we should only breed if one dog is clear???? OR are we saying that both dogs should be clear??? I've spoken to people who have bread a FC bitch to a high profile male...neither are listed, is that wrong???? I guess two years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion.

How do we tell if one of the dogs that has passed is probably clear if we want both the be clear, specifically Code Blue or Cosmo???

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks
 

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I know that you don't want to breed dogs that are both carriers. History had some great dogs that were CNM carriers. I'm sure you will get plenty more info from people more experienced than I.

Carrie
 

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Parents clear

Hi...We buy a fair amount of puppies to train for speculation,and dont buy from anything but CNM Clear Parents.Its too easy to get the clearance ,for professional breeders not to have it.Now we will buy from a litter that parents are not clear.....IF .....The breeder chips and tests the puppy before we buy it.
 

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GCA said:
I'm a little confused about CNM. Not the disease itself, but the breeding policies. Certainly, there are a lot of high profile producing dogs that are not listed on the white list from the vet in France, not to mention the dogs that have passed, that are being used to breed. I'm not saying that's wrong, I just need to understand what's acceptable and what isn't. Even the website suggests that breeding a possible carrier is acceptable.

Are we saying that we should only breed if one dog is clear???? OR are we saying that both dogs should be clear??? I've spoken to people who have bread a FC bitch to a high profile male...neither are listed, is that wrong???? I guess two years ago we wouldn't be having this discussion.

How do we tell if one of the dogs that has passed is probably clear if we want both the be clear, specifically Code Blue or Cosmo???

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks
Simply, It's OK to breed clear to clear; it's OK to breed Clear to Carrier. You will not get any affected puppies. Your litter will have clear puppies and carrier puppies. Over time, you can breed out the carrier status. This is what the people in France advocate, as well as many others. You should never breed carrier to carrier as you will get affected puppies.

The only way to tell with a dog that has passed on is to see what he has thrown. You're back to word of mouth. If you find a carrier in what he has produced, then you know that either the sire or dam of that puppy also had to be a carrier.

The website and Marilyn Fender are the two best sources of information.
 

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Personally I would not breed my dog to a carrier but like stated there are some really fine dogs that are/were carriers. Do we want to take all those great genes out of the pool--I wouldn't think so. If I happened to have a carrier that I thought was a great breeding prospect then I would definitely breed to a clear dog. I would then test the litter to find the carrier pups. These (carrier) pups would then be sold with a limited registration and the clear pups would pass on the superior genetics I was after. This way the line would still be passed on and the carrier dogs would be taken out of the gene pool.

I don't think there is a clear cut answer to what is exactly right and different breeders have their own opinion on what they feel is right. Being a CNM carrier is not the end of the world for the dog but does throw a little loop for breeding.

todd
 

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It seems to me that the only reason to breed a carrier is if that dog has something extraordinary to offer. In that case, I believe a responsible breeder needs to either disclose to purchasers that there is a 50/50 possibility that their pup will be a carrier or to test the entire litter prior to sale and make sure that the carriers are identified up front. I would not necessarily charge less for a carrier. Currently most pups go to people who have no intention of breeding.

Some of the greatest dogs in our pedigrees -- 1976 NFC-AFC SAN JOAQUIN HONCHO and 1984 NAFC-FC TRUMARC'S ZIP CODE to name two -- were CNM carriers. I would hate to have lost their contributions to the breed.
 

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LabLady said:
okvets,

Would you charge a different price for the pups with the limited registration?

Vikki
I probably would try to place the carrier pups in homes that have no desire to breed--but probably wouldn't feel right charging the same as a full registration.
 

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Cannot help wondering how many owners of clear bitches have used a CNM carrier, SINCE the availability of the test.

If I knew the sire was clear of ALL the other simple recessive, polygenetic and the unknown health issues, even I would use that particular sire.

Is there a perfect dog????????
 

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If I knew the sire was clear of ALL the other simple recessive, polygenetic and the unknown health issues, even I would use that particular sire.

Is there a perfect dog????????
No. Every dog of every breed carries recessive alleles. Ridding the gene pool of one recessive trait only brings out the other hidden traits, some of which may be worse than the original trait you wanted to cull from the gene pool in the first place. The thing to do is breed away from those traits which you don't want in your dogs. In other words, make sure one of the two dogs you are breeding is CNM free. For an informative post on this subject see Amy Dahl's response posted on February 18th of this year.
 
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