[achiro]

Disclaimer: This is not a post to start the debate! I don't want to get into my ways right, your is wrong. We're past that I hope. I'm just looking for more understanding.

Someone posted that he uses force and stick force methods but doesn't use a collar so its not a matter of forced pressure or even a pain avoidance type response that that person worries about with the collar. I've heard a few reasons over the last several months and still for the life of me don't really understand why not. So I'm gonna list a few reasons I've heard and would love for you to pick one and expand on it. Please don't take this personally, I'm just trying to understand. In fairness I will give you my take on the subject whether right or wrong.

My opinion: The collars effectiveness has been proven time and time again. Used correctly it is a fair tool that give quick correction that the dog understands. IMHO, better than taking time to run out and correct the dog, the dog understands better what you want. The only dogs I've seen that I felt were ruined from the collar was not from so much an overuse issue as much as a bad conditioning program, or trying to "teach" with the collar.(I know, I know. Some things debatably CAN be taught) The best, most enthusiastic dogs I've ever seen were trained with the collar. These are the reasons I choose a collar style training program over a non. Again, just my take.

I've also heard people say that training without one makes you a better trainer...how?

 

[Lisa S.]

Seriously,
People have said this is their reason for not using an ecollar?

"I have anger issues and would worry about overuse"

:shock:

Scary

--Lisa

 

[achiro]

Seriously,
People have said this is their reason for not using an ecollar?

"I have anger issues and would worry about overuse"

:shock:

Scary

--Lisa

[/u]

I am completely serious, I was given that reason by a guy several years ago. He had 3 MH dogs, very nice but always said that if he could "zap em" while he was mad it would cause problems.
Non of these poll answers were meant to be a joke, I have heard them all at one time or another.

 

[Lisa S.]

Okay then, I vote other just so that I can see the poll results.

--Lisa

 

[Nicki White]

Well, my reasons for NOT using one are varied. In all honesty, last summer I considered getting one for my youngest BLF...she was young (~6-8mos), and doing "puppy" things according to Keith. Being a new trainer, I didn't have the knowledge/experience to fall back on as to how to deal with her (she would swim out for a water retrieve, pick up the duck or bumper, and swim back towards me. She would get 4-5 feet away, give me that "look"---I'm sure you've all seen it at one time or another---and swim away. She never destroyed the birds. It was all a game). She had 3 of her 4 SHR passes by 7 mos old, and was pulling this crap at HT's on the water marks. I decided it was better NOT to continue running her, as it was in essence reinforcing all these bad habits---she knew I couldn't discipline her at the HT's.

Thankfully calmer, more experienced minds prevailed (Thanks, Keith!). I realized that the reason why I wanted one was to zap her!! NOT the reason to get one...

My other dog, a YLM, is the opposite extreme. He's so soft, and wants to please soooo badly that a collar would ruin him for sure. Last summer and fall he began to "pop". Keith and I tried everything we could think of to get it through to him. Finally, we tried a buggy-whip....Keith threw the mark, and right as I sent him, I whacked him on the butt to hopefully build momentum to not hesitate or pop. The look on his face as I whacked him was total disbelief...why was I doing this to him when all he wanted to do was please me?? He shut down, and just sat there. I whacked him again. Still he sat. I about cried. I would NEVER put a collar on him.

Do I think e-collars are humane if used correctly in the right hands? Probably. Do I think dogs have to have them to be competitive in FT's? Probably. But I have no desire to compete in FT's with my dogs. Corrections on 300-400yd marks or blinds aren't going to be in our training future. I think that you can teach a dog whatever it is you want to teach them w/o resorting to extremely violent measures or even using e-collars, if you have developed the right bond with them. All it takes is time. More time than would be required to teach the same concept if you used an e-collar? Probably. But that's ok. I've got time. Now all I need is experience!!

--Nicki

 

[paul young]

it's the way i've learned to do it. it works for me, so far!-paul

 

[Nicki White]

At least Keith can run out and NOT fall down.....

 

[Miriam Wade]

I voted "other". I don't use a collar for the same reason I don't use a clicker. I just don't like "things"/devices. I don't ever want to feel like-"Ooops- I forgot my collar, clicker, heeling stick, whatever-therefore my training will suffer today." It just doesn't feel natural to me. Also-the joy of this for me is that is honestly is a game for me & the dog. I don't have anything riding on this & I won't with the next pup either. If I can't do it without a collar than it won't mean I could have done it with one.
M

 

[Anthony Heath]

I just don't like "things"/devices.

Miriam,

You don't use ropes or leads either?

I think we have a Whisperer amongst us.

Anthony

 

[Nicki White]

Another twist to this poll....

How many of you that use e-collars have actually felt what the shock feels like??

...I know Keith has.... :lol:

 

[Peake]

Achiro,
To be completely honest I voted "other" for two reasons....

1) Tradition - I grew up reading about retriever training in the books and articles of the "Old School" greats and new I wanted someday to train for and handle in events just like those legends.

2) Limitations - I only choose to train for/enter intermediate level HT work which is very much attainable minus any advantages the e-collar training tool might offer.

Diff Strokes for Diff Folks,
Peake
________
GAY EBONY

 

[Miriam Wade]

Hey-no pickin on me! I don't use ropes or check cords. I use a lead to go from holding blind to holding blind, but I don't use it for corrections. The exception has been for initially correcting forging-used w/ quick about turns.
M

 

[Tim Carrion]

I tried to hit more than 1 selection but it wouldn't let me. :?

Having learned without using,proved you don't always need one, to play minor FT stakes thru MH and have at times questioned my own knowledge in the use of e-collar, I selected other since 3 of the above was not offered.

It is a useful tool that depending on your level of play and level of understanding it can help or hinder.

Tim

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Nicki... don't be tellin the whole world all this stuff about Keith... a private PM to me will do nicely.

Thanks.

shayne

 

[Tracy Sutherland]

I selected "Other" although "It isn't in the budget" is right too. If I got seriously into retriever games I think I would get one but I'm not, so I just can't justify the cost.

A couple of years ago I told myself I could have a collar the following Christmas if I trained as much the next summer. Between dog injuries, travel for work, and then the arrival of a baby I haven't trained that regularly since. No collar for Christmas...

This field stuff is just one of the games I play with my dogs. I expect I'll own a collar someday but don't see it happening in the near-ish future.

 

[Lisa S.]

Another twist to this poll....

How many of you that use e-collars have actually felt what the shock feels like??

...I know Keith has.... :lol:

Me, the first time on purpose. I felt it was reasonable to have an idea to know what the dog would feel.

Countless times by accident. :wink:

--Lisa

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

I've hit myself with Low 1 through High 5 both momentary and continuous - just to see what it was like. Also went through the spectrum on Dogtra. I can tell ya, the Dogtra is hotter than the TT Pro 500.

Shayne

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Ask Jerry what he hit me with. I can't remember what it was, but I sure was wimpy with that thing. I'll take a good old fashioned whack with a sit stick on the butt anyday. In fact...... oh, never mind.

Chris

 

[boomer 453]

Used them in the past with great results on pointers. Going without one on my lab, so far i am very happy with the results. YES, it is a lot more work but it's not like i don't need the exercise. One of the main reasons for me is that i prefer not to have anything around the wonderdawgs neck where we hunt (lot's of snags).

Unfortunately there are alot more collars than there are people who understand how to use them.

 

[Evan]

Unfortunately there are alot more collars than there are people who understand how to use them.

And you don't expect to cause a debate? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Evan