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Should previous winners of the National Retriever Championship be qualified for life?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • No

    Votes: 8 42.1%
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Well, it's only an informal poll to see if the clubs believe it is worthy of further investigation, so who knows how the matter will be decided.
On a personal level, I don't see any negative effect on the sport if this policy went on to be adopted as rule.
I don't know how our club will answer the AKC poll, yet -Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, it's only an informal poll to see if the clubs believe it is worthy of further investigation, so who knows how the matter will be decided.
"We would like you to poll the members of your club for the purpose of giving the NRC board your club’s opinion about a recent change made to the by-laws regarding the automatic qualification of previous winners of the National Retriever Championship. The current change automatically qualifies a previous winner for all future National Championships."

Sounds like the rule has been changed already and now they may reconsider, possibly due to negative reactions.
Am I misinterpreting this Paul?
 

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Randy Spangler gave a pretty impactful statement in the Retriever News about why he beleives "qualified for life" is a bad idea. If memory serves (might be wrong), he focussed on how it would not be fair to dogs from the past, and would devalue the hard work that previous NFCs or NAFCs had to go through to re-qualify after their National win.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I and everyone I have talked to agree with Randy
 
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My opinion is based on the fact that a very small number of dogs would be involved. Probably only 5 or 6, at most in any given year. Most winners are in the 6-9 year old age group, and that I feel it would enhance the competition, not diminish it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
From the NRC
"This proposal was presented at the 2020 National meeting. By vote, this proposal
passed unanimously. If 5 or more clubs had disagreed, the vote would have failed."


I now know of 4 clubs, possibly 5 that would most likely vote against it.
 

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Are
From the NRC
"This proposal was presented at the 2020 National meeting. By vote, this proposal
passed unanimously. If 5 or more clubs had disagreed, the vote would have failed."


I now know of 4 clubs, possibly 5 that would most likely vote against it.

Are they member clubs or affiliated clubs?
The letter was sent to all member clubs. Also, the bold portion within the letter the AKC sent out specifies it is a poll, and the club's reply does not constitute a vote.

From the AKC website:
The American Kennel Club is a not-for-profit organization devoted to the advancement of purebred dogs. AKC is a "club of clubs," comprised of over 500 member clubs and almost 5000 affiliated clubs. There are no individual members. Each member club exercises its voting privileges through a representative known as a "delegate." The delegates form the legislative body of the AKC, making the rules and electing from their body the individuals who serve on AKC's Board of Directors.

Check here for a search of delegates and member clubs, if you wish.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Are they member clubs or affiliated clubs?
The letter was sent to all member clubs. Also, the bold portion within the letter the AKC sent out specifies it is a poll, and the club's reply does not constitute a vote.
At least a couple are member clubs and yes it is a poll. They are just requesting a yes or no response to the email.

At least a couple of the opposed clubs I know of are member clubs.
My point is, opposition to the rule seems to be quite strong.

Edit - Reasons I have heard for opposition to the rule.

As Mike mentioned, It detracts from the accomplishment of past dogs having qualified multiple times.

The way the rule was passed. Some feel it was slipped in under the cloak of COVID.

A dog that wins the NRC is not magically set to that level for life, wins and points should be earned yearly by all dogs.

And my favorite; Why? We have enough rules and don't need silly new ones.

I am opposed to the rule myself but I am surprised by how adamantly opposed many people are.
 
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Opposed to it
The proposal doesn't bring anything positive or enhance the sport. I'd done resemblances for six Retriever Hall of Fame inductees and done over 8 litter adds. This is a statistic used for RHOF voting. It is also a statistic used for breeding. It's very unfair
 
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Well, it's only an informal poll to see if the clubs believe it is worthy of further investigation, so who knows how the matter will be decided.
On a personal level, I don't see any negative effect on the sport if this policy went on to be adopted as rule.
I don't know how our club will answer the AKC poll, yet -Paul
I for one believe it cheapens our sport, breaks with
Tradition, I will hate to see some old dog who should
Not be running walk out and retrieve a bird. Now if
They enter & just pick up a flyer & retired I love ❤ it.
JMHO.
 

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I for one believe it cheapens our sport, breaks with
Tradition, I will hate to see some old dog who should
Not be running walk out and retrieve a bird. Now if
They enter & just pick up a flyer & retired I love ❤ it.
JMHO.
I really don't think you would see what you described. The people I know who have competed at that level (several, and all finalists multiple times) would NEVER do that.

No doubt it represents a break with tradition, but how does it "cheapen the sport"? - Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I really don't think you would see what you described. The people I know who have competed at that level (several, and all finalists multiple times) would NEVER do that.

No doubt it represents a break with tradition, but how does it "cheapen the sport"? - Paul
I don't think people would run an old dog that is no longer physically capable, but because of this rule it could happen. If it did I suppose the judges could disqualify the dog for being unfit. Who wants to have to do that at a national or even a weekend trial?

I have heard good arguments against the rule. I have heard no argument that convinces me the rule is needed or will enhance the sport as a whole, or the NRC, in any way.
 

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It is already a rule, is it not?

"In full accordance with the bylaws a proposal was put
forth by the board asking for a vote to consider qualifying former winners of the
championship to be pre-qualified for life to participate in the National. This proposal was presented at the 2020 National meeting. By vote, this proposal passed unanimously."

It seems as though the only way to overturn the rule in question is for someone to propose a rule change to strike the rule in it's entirety and force a vote on the rule change.

The Poll in and of itself can not strike the rule.

If it is as egregious as has been suggested on here, someone will undoubtedly step to the plate and submit a rule change proposal. -Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It is already a rule, is it not?

"In full accordance with the bylaws a proposal was put
forth by the board asking for a vote to consider qualifying former winners of the
championship to be pre-qualified for life to participate in the National. This proposal was presented at the 2020 National meeting. By vote, this proposal passed unanimously."
Sounds like a rule to me

It seems as though the only way to overturn the rule in question is for someone to propose a rule change to strike the rule in it's entirety and force a vote on the rule change.

The Poll in and of itself can not strike the rule.
I suspect the reason for the poll is negative feedback on the rule change.
 

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All
Let’s get the apples and oranges in the right basket please !
That memo and request for a straw poll was sent to National Retriever Club member club delegates and contacts by the NRC - the AKC did not send anything out. The Club delegates and contacts are suppose to interface with local club members and Conclude an answer for the local club.
A straw pole yes vote endorses the bylaws modification, a no vote wants the bylaw modification redacted and for the club that doesn’t vote it means u really don’t care which way it goes
The NRC is a club of clubs so member clubs pay dues to have their Open stake points Count toward the NRC qualification which is 7 open points Which must include a win in the qualifying year. The qualifying year starts just after the National ( about mid Nov ) and ends the weekend before the National starts.

There is a lot of passion on either viewpoint so get informed before you get your powder wet.
dk
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It did not get a 2/3 majority vote here and I have yet to hear a compelling argument in support of the rule.
 
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